Okay this is getting silly. Next time Hasbro does this, I’m going to give them 24 hours before typing this up so I don’t have to write three separate articles for each series of better images that we get! Gah.
I’ve seen the images. I would imagine pretty much everyone has. I’m certain at this point things are pretty doom and gloom. Five points of articulation, reused vehicles, deth of teh line, etc…
While I’m staying far away from the whole “Deth of teh line!” crowed, I will admit up front I am a bit punched in the gut by the restricted articulation on the vehicle drivers. I won’t say it’s completely unexpected. Anyone who has been listening to the Whats on Joe Mind podcast should remember that I’ve been talking about a scaled back movie line and about the potential for reduced articulation for months now. So hopefully folks who have been listening to that aren’t taken so far aback. But I will admit, even though I’ve been saying it, I can’t help but feel a bit of wind knocked out the sails. There’s just something about seeing that familiar visage of Snake Eyes with only 5 points of articulation that just doesn’t look… right. That’s NOT how he’s supposed to look.
That being said, I’m not writing this off as doom and gloom. Aside from the vehicle drivers there are plenty of things to cheer about, and I’m going to bore the hell out of everyone by regurgitating them all right here. Not only that, but I’m going crazy. I’m going figure by figure and vehicle by vehicle. No, I do not have a life. Let’s do this.
Basic Action Figures
Roadblock – Not a whole lot more to talk about here. The same impressively large, somewhat plain looking figure that has incredible detail for being such a fairly generically designed character. He obviously comes with some heavy weapons that attach to the handle in his hand, but if the above pictures are correct I can take solace in the fact that it looks like either that handle does come out of his hand, or his gripped fist can be swapped out for a normal one. This is a load off my mind, especially in light of other construction concerns that have arisen.
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Duke – Like Roadblock, kind of more of the same. He obviously comes with a big honking rocket launcher now that somehow hooks onto the big honking gun we already saw him with, for better or worse. No ankle articulation that I can see, but I think he has swivel wrists at least. From what I can tell, only single jointed knees. Man…depressing to see the step back in articulation, even at minor points. Evidently a cost concern, but still a damn shame.
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Cobra Commander – Love this figure still and love that amazingly huge, cartoonish Cobra battle staff! So unusual for a realism-based movie line, which is why I love it. G.I. Joe should be outlandish, it has been for 30 years. I have no problems with it, and I fully embrace this awesome new Cobra Commander. He is also without ankle articulation, and looks to just have single joint knees. For Cobra Commander I don’t have such an issue with it, since he’s not usually in the thick of combat, but I can’t say it’s not bothersome at some level.
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Cobra Trooper – Okay if any one picture could sell me on a figure, it would involve a huge Cobra parachute. I mean seriously. So awesome. The different angle of the trooper and seeing his head without the helmet both help quite a bit, too. I mentioned during our Whats on Joe Mind Special Edition that I wasn’t really wild about the Cobra Trooper. I’m coming around. He’s got ankle articulation by the looks of it, but still only single knees.
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G.I. Joe Trooper – Heh…between the gas mask and the cape I don’t know if this guy is a super hero or a Cobra Trooper in disguise. Both works, but what works even more is that mohawk head sculpt! Holy awesome. He may have double knees, but it’s tough to tell. His accessories absolutely steal the show. Backpack looks great, weapons look great, and when he’s not in disguise with that gas mask, that would be a terrific addition to the standard Cobra arsenal. Definitely one of the highlights of this initial run of figures.
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Snake Eyes – What the holy hell is that?!? Snake Eyes comes with some of the craziest accessories I’ve seen, with a strange swing-wing jetpack, a solid metal vest and a very bizarre translucent tuning fork? I… I don’t even know. Underneath all that strangeness is the sleek figure I already talked about that I actually really enjoy, even with the bizarro stuff on top. Good news here is Snake Eyes appears to not just have ankle joints but the same rocker ankles that Scarlett came with! WIN. I’m starting to see a trend here…the ninja figures are more poseable than the non-ninjas? It does make a certain amount of sense.
One disappointment here, though, is the jet pack. Over in Rise of Cobra land we got a c0uple jet packs and they had some nice play value but they also looked really cool. This one? Yeah, not so cool looking. Chunky, light blue, and just not the same cool sleekness of the RoC General Hawk or Arctic Storm Shadow. Overall the figure is still neat.
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Storm Shadow – Loved this figure when we first saw it, still loving it now. He also has a very strange weapon/jet contraption, but if Hasbro can cram play value into that instead of killing the figure itself, sign me up. Seeing him from these different angles really makes me fall in love with the figure all the more. This is a great looking state-of-the-art Storm Shadow and I LOVE it. He looks to have double knees and rocker ankles as well.
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Red Ninja – More of what I already praised this figure for previously. Using a lot of Storm Shadow parts, this is a very impressive looking figure. I’m really getting curious about the flat out strangeness of these clunky accessories. This one clips on his arm and…does… what, exactly? I don’t know. They’ve all got these large funky colored cannisters that I can’t quite get my head around. The important thing is the core of the figure is fantastic, and he also has the knees and rocker ankles, so he’s all good. Doesn’t appear to come with a ton of accessories.
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Zartan – Zartan, Zartan, Zartan. How do I love you, let me count the ways. Bad news first, looks like he doesn’t have the rocker ankles or ankle joints at all. Bummer. Still, the figure design is fantastic, very Renegades-like, sleek, and nasty. And holllllyyyy…that translucent Snake Eyes head? SO COOL. This is a great looking figure even with some reduced articulation, and I really love it. Home run here, too.
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Ninja Showdown Battle Packs
These two three-packs look to be giving us a selection of core characters and some other characters, with some possible Easter Eggs thrown in for good measure. How cool is that?
Ninja Dojo Battle – A three pack of figures, and only one apparent ninja, yet still dubbed the “Ninja Dojo Battle”. The main focus of this pack is evidently Roadblock, front and center with a monstrous rocket launcher, a big chain gun, and some sick camouflage face paint. The likeness of The Rock here is uncanny, and the size of the figure is impressive to say the least. A very imposing one. The more ninja looking figure is a mystery character at this point, though he is sporting an Arashikage logo on his right shoulder. Some have hypothosized that it might be Kamakura or a Night Creeper.
On the left I still stand by the fact that this is Beachhead. Some folks have suggested Firefly, but if you zoom in real close on his left arm, there’s a patch that looks remarkably like a square patch that Beachhead wore in the old school Marvel days. His green color is a bit washed out, but I’m pretty sure that’s who it is.
Ninja Showdown – This one is a bit easier to tell with Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow standing proudly on each side. Snake Eyes is an amazing looking figure! Those huge pouches are a terrific addition and bring forth a lot of great military feel. Storm Shadow looks to be the same as the single pack figure with just some color alterations.
Now that dude in the middle…I’ll be damned if that’s not a Slice. Granted he’ll probably be sold as a “Red Ninja Leader” or something like that, but he could make for a really awesome updated Slice to go alongside the Dice from the Collectors’ Club FSS. Very neat.
Alpha Vehicles
All right, here comes the sore spots. Shut your eyes and just tear that bandage right off. You know the one…it’s the one on that wound that had almost completely healed from the 2002 T-Crotch debacle. Well, if that’s not completely scabbed over, it’s gonna open right back up.
The Alpha vehicles feature Flint, Snake Eyes, and Firefly. Flint and Snake Eyes are on two Joe bikes that look to be the same tooling and also look to share some remarkable similarities with the Sigma 6 hovercycles from back in the day. That’s a good thing.
I actually really love Flint’s somewhat futuristic riding suit with green and black and the high collar. But then you notice that the figures have some restricted articulation. Firefly and Snake Eyes at least seem to have knee joints, but Flint…it doesn’t look like he does. Yes, his legs look to be sculpted the same as the Resolute Snake Eyes, but generally you’ll see some sort of break in the knees, and I don’t.
That being said, the Joe motorcycles are okay, but the Cobra one is fantastic. Designed to look a lot like the one from the trailer (and thus the film itself) I really love the weaponry and sloped armor. A very cool looking bike which would have been even cool with a more flexible Firefly. I’m glad he’s got the knees, but would have loved a more poseable figure, especially because the design is so bad ass.
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Bravo Vehicles
Fang Boat – I’m not making this up, that’s what the image’s name is. First and foremost, even with three Water Moccasin releases in 3 years, this one is still pretty sweet. With a dark gray/black paint scheme, some dark blue trim, and even touches of red, this is the best color scheme this vehicle has ever gotten, and I love it a lot. That being said, there isn’t a whole lot of “new” here and when you’re talking about a movie line, you sometimes expect some more new tooling involved.
As for the figure, we don’t have a great idea of that. The original Hasbro picture features a figure picture way too small to figure out, and the high res image doesn’t show the figure at all. We can only assume it has restricted articulation like the others. More on that later.
Tread Ripper Tank w/ Clutch – Using the HISS Scout base vehicle as inspiration we now have the Tread Ripper. I think most of us saw the Ripsaw vehicle used liberally throughout the trailer, and this is a good enough representation of that to work, I think. Of course, some changes look to have been made, most notably the treads no longer roll independently, they are now one large piece of plastic as we’ve been used to with the old school Joe line. Also, the new rollcage adds a nice level of protection.
But then we get to “Clutch”. And Clutch here…well, he has a problem. His problem? He has only 5 points of articulation. That’s right. Five.
Never in G.I. Joe’s 3 3/4″ Real American Hero history have figures only had 5 points of articulation. Well, I suppose if you count the Mega Monsters, Deep Six, and Armor Tech from Star Brigade, but even then the Star Brigade figures had elbow and knee joints! This is a rough one. The very first G.I. Joe figures I bought were bought simply because they were more poseable than other figures of the same size. Take that away, and you really take away part of the essence of what makes G.I. Joe what it is… “America’s Moving Fighting Man”. I understand it’s just for the vehicle drivers and the main line still retains the bulk of their articulation, but if Hasbro had this mindset from day one, we never would have had characters like Clutch, Cover Girl, Steeler, or even Zartan who gained a following all their own. I am the eternal Hasbro apologist, but when it comes to removing articulation on this grand a scale, I find it hard to forgive.
It does seem as if Hasbro is trying to make up for it somewhat by giving them some very cool head sculpts. I love this one. It could work for Rock n Roll v.2, or just be a Delta Force or Special Operations guy…looks a lot like one of those sunglasses-wearing operators you see behind enemy lines. That part is awesome. The lack of any movable joints except the shoulders and hips? Not so awesome.
Ninja Commando 4×4 with Snake Eyes – And this one is pretty much a strike out. To Hasbro’s credit, it’s one of the only pure strike outs of this entire assortment, but it definitely is. The fandom already tires of the AWE Striker, and yes there is some added tooling to the rollcage, but the end result is still a pretty “blah” vehicle that isn’t made any more attractive by the spring-loaded grappling gun or the stick figure Snake Eyes. This one is a shame.
Delta Vehicles
I can only imagine that like the Bravo vehicles, the drivers that come with the Delta’s are hobbled by poor articulation. I can only assume because we don’t really have good pictures to view with these new press images. We do get a small shot of the HISS Driver in the turret of the HISS, but that’s it. We can still talk about what we can see, however.
HISS – Upon first glance it seemed that there were only some cursory modifications done to this vehicle, but now, that doesn’t appear to be the case. This one looks significantly different. First of all, the treads are now all one piece instead of having the rubber moving components to them from previous models. The base body looks much the same, but we now have an awesome clear canopy and a nice large cannon in the center of the rear of the tank. From the image it looks like a figure can fit there, too, which is fantastic!
I love the symmetrical look of the tank with the same chain gun on each side, and the new colors are excellent. Yes, this has the potential to be an awesome vehicle, yet is dragged down somewhat by the driver, if he only has 5 points of articulation.
Ghost Hawk II – Another very nice looking vehicle. It shares some design similarities with the Black Dragon helicopter, but just by comparing this image, I don’t believe they are one and the same. I love the wings, I love the over/under thrusters, and the sleek, aerodynamic body style is terrific. Once again, we’re left guessing about the pilot, which is apparently Duke. Again, you have to think there are only five points of articulation.
Ninja Combat Cruiser – Wow. For the Delta vehicles, Hasbro is unequivocably three for three. Every one of these vehicles is gorgeous and fantastic. Taking the already awesome Pursuit of Cobra VAMP as a base and adding newly tooled doors, roof, and rocket launcher, we have an imposing 4-wheeled vehicle that is a vast improvement over the older model. I love the darker colors, and the potential it has for Stinger fodder. This is a great one.
The driver also looks terrific, which makes the fact that he’s got restricted mobility all the more disappointing. He would have made a great generic trooper, but instead he will likely get cast aside and never used with the normal G.I. Joe figures.
San Diego ComicCon
I’m not going to break this down figure-by-figure. In fact, I’m not going to talk about it much at all. I know the concept of SDCC Exclusives ticks off a lot of people, but I remain unbothered by it. Keep in mind that I never go to SDCC, and I have to find arrangements for these things just like anyone else, but I’m willing to accept that. Hasbro is dialing things up with these exclusives and doing some excellent work. For people thinking Hasbro does this just to turn a buck, how would releasing a limited edition exclusive at only a slightly higher price point make them more money? It doesn’t. They would much rather move 10,000 Jinx figures at $8 a pop than 1,000 Jinx figures at $15 a pop. It’s economics.
The fact remains that retailers aren’t going to jump on a Jinx figure looking like she did 30 years ago. Hell, forget for a minute that it’s even Jinx…they can’t even find a place for KWINN, and that’s a big, growly looking guy with a huge machine gun. If given a choice between paying out the nose for an SDCC Jinx or always having that hole in my ’87 collection, I’ll pay the money, especially for one that looks as nice as this. It almost looks like Hasbro just tooled up the torso and heads. Those arms and legs almost look like they’re from the 30th Anniversary/Renegades Storm Shadow. It works.
Now as for the Shockwave HISS. That’s an interesting animal. I thought the Starscream Skystriker was a pretty neat idea, and it was iconic to both brands. I don’t think this one has that same impact. That being said, I can’t help but love the purple color, the Decepticon emblem, the semi-translucent weapons and that FREAKING gun barrel! That is brilliant. Just by adding that barrel, the ShockHISS went from an “eh” to a “wow”. So yeah, another series of winners for SDCC, and another few months of trying to figure out how I’ll get ’em.
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I’ve only poked my head around the fandom for a few brief moments today as I buried myself in work and site updates, and it was immediately obvious the sky is falling. I will admit up front, the reduction in articulation for the vehicle drivers is a major bummer. The slight reduction in articulation for the main line figures is somewhat disturbing. But the fact remains that even aside from these complaints, there is a lot to love here.
By and large, the designs for all of the main line figures are fantastic. Roadblock, Cobra Commander, Snake Eyes, Storm Shadow, and Zartan are all imminently cool and highly desirable, in spite of some joint limitations. The Ninja Showdown sets are amazing, with a great mix of military and martial arts aesthetic as well as a nice potential blend between Retaliation and vintage styles.
By and large, the vehicles are quite nice, too, even if the drivers are unfortunately forgettible. The Alpha Joe motorcycles are okay, and Firefly is cruising on one hell of a nice ride. Not huge on the Fang Boat or the 4 x 4, but even with the crappy Clutch figure, that Tread Ripper looks pretty sick. A hell of a lot better than the HISS Scout.
The Delta vehicles? Those are amazing. All three of them. Love the updates to the HISS, even with the different treads. The Ghost Hawk II is a completely awesome looking plane that I really love, and the updated VAMP is beautiful, too. Yes, the drivers are quite disappointing, but is this really any different than taking your crappy PoC HISS Driver and chucking him in a parts box? Of course in recent months we’d gotten great stuff like the Crimson Hoseman and Steel Brigade Delta, but it appears that those days are now gone for the forseeable future.
Unlike many fans, though, I still see a future. I see a future where Hasbro has learned how to integrate the vintage aesthetic with a modern theatrical style and bring us a terrific combination of 21st Century technology and very familiar 30-year old design philosophies. From a design standpoint, Hasbro gets it, folks. Certain decisions have obviously been made that I am quite unhappy with, but in the grand scheme of things, most of what I see above are things that I really like, and purely based on my own reaction to the trailer, I still think this has a great chance to gel and succeed and catapult G.I. Joe into a better place going forward.
Bring on Toy Fair 2012!
I think that personally, I’m going to run with the Ninja Dojo Battle as being Storm Shadow. But that’s largely personal bias towards Storm Shadow as a good guy, the fact that Hasbro refuses to make any more good aligned SSs after the single 25th figure, and the old colour change Shadow Ninja Storm Shadow, who was also blue.
The loss of articulation is extremely disappointing, yes. But by and large the single figures ARE great; I will be loading up on Red Ninjas, Cobra Troopers, and Joe Troopers, and all of those individual characters (Roadblock, Duke, CC, Zartan, etc) will find a place in my collection. I can probably live without rocker ankles (but really, to take a step back from 5 years ago with 25th figures?) And the drivers – I would’ve bought the the tread ripper thing just for a new Clutch. But not for a new Clutch who has the same articulation and general pose as a C.B. McHaul figure from the late 70s.
You’re a better man than me with these things, Justin. I seriously can’t accept the articulation thing. Part of it comes from how much time I’ve spent digging through time and seeing how the brand has grown from the inside out… the other part of it really just harks back to my childhood where I was aware even then of the appeal and enjoyment of full-on articulation. If you were a GI JOE with knees that didn’t bend, you were in space armor, diving “armor”, or a gorram Manimal. You certainly weren’t the latest incarnation of GI JOE trying to pick up pieces where Rise of Cobra did some damage and you certainly weren’t the follow up to easily the most stellar articulation GI JOE output of all time… the 30th Anniversary and Pursuit of Cobra. I get that these are aimed at the entire world and not us. I really do. But like I said… as a kid I knew there was a difference and while I’m not putting out as doom and gloom… just really miffed and uneasy… I do think kids would pay attention today in regards to such things. First kid who says “this guy’s knees bend but this guy’s knees don’t” gets a cookie.
So we are going to pay more for less huh? That seriously hits a nerve with me. I knew multi wrists and rocker ankles weren’t going to be the standard but no ankle articulation at all? Are you kidding me? They won’t even match the 25th anniv line? Without the ability to lean through a ankle joint you can’t compensate for a backpack without leaning the whole figure forward. How do you go from the most articulated Joe line ever to a step backwards even before the 25th?
Well, no offense, but where did I say that I “accepted” the articulation thing? I don’t accept it. It ticks me off. But I don’t think the reduced articulation in a few select figures impacts the coolness of the rest of the line.
There have been economic changes in the world over the past few years, and remember, production of the 30th Anniversary stuff was likely completed almost 2 years ago now. A lot has changed since then.
Many of these figures have the articulation we’re used to, it’s just a few that don’t, and in those few, the main draw is likely the vehicle itself. I am disappointed in those vehicle drivers. I don’t accept the articulation changes. But I still love most of the main line offerings and I don’t see that changing.
No no… I just meant in your ability to keep a cool head about it. I’ve had to go back and edit in on the forums that I really appreciate a lot of what we’ve seen because I’ve been so tunnel-visioned about the changes… I meant you’re a better person than me in your ability to constantly cover all the bases out the gate. That’s why you’re the voice of the community and I’m the smug elitist. Even in my post here I managed to make you think I was saying you ‘accepted’ this because I was just so impulsive and quick to start my rant. HAHAHAHA. When what I meant was You’re a better person than me, Justin. (End of subject). Now onto my problems with what we’re seeing. But instead it reads as one comment with one theme. HAHAHAH. So sorry for that. Totally not the context I was going for.
Yeah but most of the main line guys like CC and Duke don’t even have ankle articulation.
Actually Europe is not getting any Joe figures.
“Yes, the drivers are quite disappointing, but is this really any different than taking your crappy PoC HISS Driver and chucking him in a parts box?”
Agree with ya on every point but that one! It is quite different, for me. Parts box means “parts for use with other figures.” If I don’t like a driver, I can take the gear, hands, legs, head, whatever and use it elsewhere. The barely articulated guys here are completely wasted money. I don’t do a think with ’em. It’s not just parts box, it’s the trash, bascially. I don’t understand thier angle here, but I’m SO glad they aren’t doing it across the board. I don’t care about losing some ankle joints or double jointed knees, but the drivers are just rubbish.
Good point. While the drivers here have good weapons and swappable heads, you are right, there won’t be webgear or anything like that to pick or choose from, which is a shame.
Haha, Hasbro held back from Rise of Cobra. Look at Snake Eyes in the Ninja Showdown pack – that’s from when he first shows up in the prequel. In the Ninja Dojo Battle Set, it looks like Beach Head – and a Night Creeper.
As for the articulation – COME ON GUYS!! These toys should be for kids, not hardcore collectors; and if it means that the figs are cheaper, I’ll gladly trade articulation away for cheapness.
The problem is that they are going to be more expensive. I also wonder about the future. If Hasbro wants to do a less articulated movie line then fine. I will just save my money. I hope they do not intend on this direction for the future of Gi Joe.
Oh Derrick, how I’ve missed our little arguments! LMAO! Retaliation figs are more expensive than the 30th anniversary figs. I’m assuming this cost is the result of paying royalties to Paramount. The loss of articulation is to pay for the BFGs all the toys come with…;-)
the fang boat figure , its the clutch prototype that was sculped to come with the vamp mk 2 and hasbro decides to use a kitbash , noe hasbro decides to use that proto on the fang boat
Can’t Clutch’s head still be thrown on a better body?
I would bet large amounts of money that it can be, yes.
For me its simple. There are good toys here and there are not so good toys here. I will buy the ones deserving of my money, the rest can rot on shelves until GIJoe 3 comes out. You can bitch and whine and mope and grump till you go blue in the face but in the end the only thing a company like Hasbro listens to is the all mighty dollar. So I will buy what is worth buying. Hasbro has always tried to pawn off crap to consumers so they can make more money (just look at the articulation and crappy sculpting in the Star Wars line), that’s their job….to make money. Our job is to only give it to them when they produce something worth spending it on and not just buying any ol crap thing just cause it has a Joe logo on it.
Personally I still see this offering light years ahead of what ROC offered. Not nearly as good as POC and not even remotely close to the 30th stuff (minus some ho-hum Renegades figures here and there) but its still better than what I was expecting. I seriously didn’t think I would be interested in the movie line at all based on what happened with ROC and here I am counting down the months until I can have some of these figures. So all in all, quite happy. Vehicles look like shit anyway, so who cares that the drivers have crap articulation.
Hawkwinter I was about the type the exact same thing until I read your post. You said it. We can bitch and complain which I will do and everyone has the right to do because it’s fun. Ha! But in the end there isn’t anything we can do about. All you can do is vote with your dollars. I will buy the figures that have equal articulation to the 25th line and the rest will not be part of my collection. I want to wait until I see actual pics of figs at Toy Fair and if the lack of articulation is still there I will email Hasbro and express my disappointment. That’s about all we can do.
I don’t really give a rat’s ass about the articulation. It’s not like I “pretend” fighting battles with all of the stuff and need major movement from the figures. I just collect because I like the way they look, and can display them. The only benefit I can see all the articulation for is for people making dios, but come on, how many people really do that? Hasbro’s not making these for you, they’re making them for kids who don’t give a rat’s ass about articulation either.
I guess my point is really that I don’t see the need for complaining about the lack of articulation. We should be grateful to even be fans of something that actually makes toys, cartoons, movies and comics for us. There are tons of fans of other franchises out there that don’t have half the things we have. Let’s just be glad we’re getting a movie and a ton of new toys…after this run who know what will happen..
Instead of critiquing or vehemently kvetching or, alternately, polishing Hasbro’s knob, I’m going to point out something I noticed: Storm Shadow’s “very strange weapon/jet contraption” seems to be some sort of high falutin’, and ridiculous, compound bow.
Maybe with the Airing of Grievances people will finally appreciate how amazing the last few years have been. Airtight, Sci-Fi, Low Light, Stalker, etc. have all been amazingly good.
I think that is what makes people even more fired up though.
Yes Dusty is right. It’s hard to go backwards. I thought the ARAH were nicely sculpted and well proportioned. When Spy Troops and VvV came out, I tried to like them but some of the proportions just looked weird. The PoC and recent Joes have all been really awesome. I don’t need a million points of articulation, but 5 points now seems like too few.
The naive part of me is hoping that these photos don’t reflect the final product, and that the articulation will be there.
The selfish part of me is grateful it’s mostly the drivers who suffer, ’cause I seldom buy vehicles anyway.
Also, Sigma 6 figures had the best Joe articulation ever, but look at the Metal Mayhem mech Snake Eyes figure; pop-off He-Man arms and five points of articulation. Doesn’t mean that’s what became of every Sigma figure after that, just as this won’t necessarily be the future direction of the Joe toys.
Still, I’m with Alexx: taking such huge steps backward in articulation really COULD be the “death of the line” if they’re not careful. Do I love the Pursuit of Cobra toys? Yes. More than any other toys in history, arguably. Would I have bought them if they had vintage Star Wars articulation? Nope.
Yep, if this gamble doesn’t pay off with the kiddies, it could very well kill the line by losing the adult collector market, which, small as it is, is really all that’s been keeping G.I. Joe alive over the past decade. Speaking as a decidedly un-hardcore adult collector who has really enjoyed the 30th, POC, most of the 25th and parts of ROC, VvsV and Spy Troops, I’m not buying any of this. Both figuratively and literally. There’s no reason for me to. None of this evokes any feeling of nostalgia, and certainly not excitement. It’s all pretty generic and Ben10-like. Granted, the Retaliation Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow would be really awesome if the POC/30th/Renegades versions hadn’t been even more awesome. I already own the better toys, why buy lesser versions? Two things have always set G.I. Joe apart, and they’re articulation and imagination. Add those two to nostalgia and you’ve pretty much got the three main reasons adults have collected this line. Without any of that, what’s left? So, yeah, this is where I get off and, I suspect, there’s plenty of others out there like me who will either stop completely, or decide to concentrate instead on another toyline.
BTW, the movie looks like amateurish, hackneyed balls too.
I think you make a good point about collectors between the movies. I don’t know if many kids buy Joes when they aren’t tied to a movie. Oddly I wonder if the movie is a massive hit if they will feel that it vindicates their choices on articulation.
or, that after the movie, the articulation will return as the focus will return back to us? Or if it does well Hasbro can prove they can charge a few dollars more for those vehicles to the retailers. That’s what that would mean, if we want those drivers articulated, then it would cost more. I think it’s wise to keep in mind that Hasbro’s primary customers are retailers, perhaps this is what they had to make to get the retailers on board or to match the price point the retailers want?
Yeah, the big problem here is that the figures with vehicles are INCENTIVES for me. The HISS scout with the rollcage there is only sorta cool – woulda been AWESOME with a new Clutch! That, however, is one of those Big Lots military guys. Granted, it’s more detailed, but that’s not enough. I’m not buying those. I’m buying G.I. Joes.
So on one hand I guess I’m glad I’m being saved the money and space from not having to buy vehicles, but on the other hand…how many others are like me? They want the children’s interest – and I totally get that – but wouldn’t you sell more with the children’s interest AND the collector’s interest? You’re instantly killing off more than half the collector interest with this. I don’t get it.
Once again, though, I don’t have any problems with the single packs so I can’t say I’m that miffed. Missing some ankle joints and double jointed knees on some doesn’t really bother me, and hell; I thought the recent figures were getting a little complicated for kids nowadays anyway. Most likely we’re gona be seeing a collector/kid split, and they’ll be giving us a speech soon about “Don’t worry guys, the standard articulation will continue in the classic toyline!” or something like that. Not that they really need to. Cobra Commander be able to perform just as well as the others without those couple of points of articulation, I think.
Well stated, Alexx, and I do agree with this. I think the figures are an incentive to buy vehicles, too, but I’m not sure the general public sees it that way. Ultimately many will consider this one step closer to “deth of teh line” but I firmly believe that the mainline retail presence of G.I. Joe will continue to be one of the most articulated toylines on the market.
Agreed, but I think we need to look at this with some perspective. It’s only the vehicle drivers. All indications are it will just remain with vehicle drivers. I think the chances that G.I. Joe’s mainline retail presence includes figures with 5 POA is 0%.
But many mainline figs have reduced articulation too. I may have already typed that though. oops
I almost said the same thing but then i stopped myself. Yes they do but nowhere on that level. In fact there reduction was kinda of expected. Although I admit I thought it would be vehicle drivers and non essential/non combat guys at that level. If the Rock had full articulation I would buy at least 3 of them to help make a better updated Mirage and Slaughter customs, now i’ll buy one, and fix it myself with some spare parts. I think that is still do able at that level.
I’ve bought vehicles just for the figures. To me they’re just as important as a single carded figure. If the vehicle drivers are released as seen in the pictures, than I guess I’ll be saving that much money and room as most of these vehicles are not that great looking to me. What a waste Hasbro.
But if its just going to be vehicle drivers with limited POAs, which are using all-new tooling for these figures, why not frankenstein driver characters out of existing multi-POA bucks, using the new head sculpts?
The tooling to do this exists, and it would offer more POAs for what I would assume to be the same costs. Why create all-new sculpts in a less-functional articulation scheme–especially when its doubtful that any of these vehicle drivers make an appearance in the film as they appear in the toys??
Creating new limited 5-POA tooling means these things could very likely appear again, down the road, and that this COULD be the “new normal”, as far as this aspect of the GIJOE brand goes. I really do not like what that entails.
Anyone else think that the accessory with Storm Shadow, the Red Ninja and in the Ninja Showdown set could be some type of zip line accessory? I thought that might be some type of projectile shooting bow with SS but, I don’t know, now.
Yes that is what I was thinking with the red Ninja, it was some kind of grappling hook or zip line accessory.
You uber nerds with your asian contacts need to get ahold of some of these figs to find out the real deal. If these are final figs and not protos then we need to make our voices heard at TF, Joe Con, and SDCC.
I think we should all accept the fact that these are final figures. These are press images, Toy Fair is a week from today. Change isn’t happening between now and then.
I agree, we should let our voices be heard. As long as we’re respectful and can argue our stance intelligently, I fully support attending these shows and speaking like an adult to whatever Hasbro representatives are present. It can do wonders.
I’ve always supported the G.I. Joe line, almost unquestioningly, to the point of being a Hasbro apologist. During the last 5 years, I’ve bought just about every 25th & ME toy, EVERY Roc toy, PoC, 30th, Con exclusives, Club figures, 7 packs, you name it. I have always been about focusing on the positive and pretty much ignoring the negative, because I love G.I. Joe, plain and simple, and when you love something, you accept it’s flaws and imperfections. Having said that, this business about reduced articulation really bothers me to the core. As hard as I try, I just can’t justify it or excuse it.
Now, I’m not going to spew out an emotional rant, or scream the “Teh deth of teh line”, so for the trolls, move right along, nothing to see here. What I am going to do, is speak my mind.
Back when I was 5 years old, I HATED the fact that Star wars and other toy lines lacked articulation in the knees, elbows, and hips. It just never made sense to me, and keep in mind, I was just a child. When G.I. Joe came along, one of the main reasons, perhaps the key reason, I fell in love with the brand, was because of the advanced level of articulation; Knees, elbows, O-ring waist, pivoting legs, and later, swivel arms. G.I. Joe has always been about being the best damn action figure on the market, they were the best back in the 80’s, through most of the 90s and 2000s and are still the best today. Only a few 4 inch figure lines, like Microman even come close. Like someone said so well earlier, “It’s a core concept of the brand”.
Now, we come to the G.I. Joe 2 Retaliation toy line. I have been eagerly anticipating this line, as I’m sure most of us have. I had already decided that I would give this line my full support, and buy every damn figure and vehicle, just I like I did with the RoC line, and every other Joe line since 2007. Perhaps it is naive to commit whole heartedly to a toy line, sight unseen, but that’s how much I love G.I. Joe. Regardless of how “Ninja” or how “Sci-Fi” G.I. joe gets, no matter how much I may like or dislike RoC, or the latest cartoon, or comic, I always stand by the brand. I would be hard pressed to imagine a scenario in which I would NOT support G.I. Joe. That is until now.
When the first blurry, low rez images of the new toys began showing up, fans immediately began speculating about what appeared to be missing points of articulation. I refused to believe it. In fact, I refused to even consider the possibility that Hasbro would do such a thing. Not now, not when the PoC line and the 30th line had just achieved new levels of articulation and detail. When Hasbro reps had released statements about cutting costs, I had assumed that it would take the form of less weapons and accessories, perhaps less detail in certain areas of the sculpt, simplified vehicle designs, etc. I would never have imagined that Hasbro would cut costs by reducing the one factor that has always defined the brand.
The possibility of reduced articulation has been discussed a few times on the WOJM podcast, so for those of you who diligently listen to the podcast, perhaps this wasn’t a big surprise. I work 10 to 12 hours a day, I have a son in highschool, and other family obligations, I run a (very)small business, and I GM the Joe vs Cobra RPG game here on the tank, so as awesome as the podcast is, As much as everyone tells me how much it kicks ass, and I do believe it, sitting down for a hour and listening to a podcast isn’t a top priority for me. I just don’t have that much time. So, it came as quite a shock, and again, I did not want believe it. Even now, looking at these AMAZING figure and vehicles, I still hold out hope that it will turn out to be a mistaken assumption. I really want these toys, badly. But, as time goes on, I find myself having no choice but to heed the mounting evidence in support of the popular conclusion, and it’s a real downer.
So, what now? It’s not the end of the line, that’s for sure. In fact, maybe the Retaliation line will be a huge hit with the kids, and explode to near 80’s era popularity. Honestly, for the sake of the kids out there, and for the sake of the G.I. Joe brand, I would love to see that. But for me, as corny or as melodramatic as it may sound, it kind of is the the end of the line, or at least the end of an era. I realize that I have options; I can walk away, I can cherry pick the line, I can wait for exclusives and other products aimed specifically at adult collectors, Or I can just buy everything despite the fact that it goes against my principals. Sure, I can do any of those things, But I was hoping it wouldn’t come to that.
I Know Hasbro needs to sell toys to kids, and I want Hasbro to succeed, I have never wished for Hasbro or G.I. Joe to fail ever. I want every kid in the world to experience the same love I have for G.I. Joe. And, if this is the only way for Hasbro to do this, or if this is the best way for Hasbro to do this, then fine, so be it. I understand that Hasbro has their reasons, perhaps to cut costs, perhaps to focus energy on what they feel are key features, while reducing the amount of energy spent on “Non essential” features, like having well articulated vehicle drivers. But deep down, I can’t help but think that this is a mistake. Vehicle drivers that can’t bend their knees and elbows are a mistake. Figures with no ankle articulation are a mistake. I refuse to believe that the only way for G.I. Joe to be successful and remain competitive, is to give up it’s single most defining feature.
Its NOT O.K.
I will continue to support G.I. Joe, as far as my principals and my desires will allow, I will buy as many of the toys as I can, I will continue to love G.I. Joe, and hope for it’s success. I hope that in the future, we can look back on this time as the darkness that was before the dawn. Yo Joe!
Well said dude. Part of me is naively hoping that the actual figures shown at TF will have more articulation but I think that is unlikely.
Very well said, Eddie. I agree with a lot of what you say, and see no issues with your stance. I do think the entire line is getting unfairly lambasted for a change that has essentially impacted a handful of figures… we all know that vehicles have been a very hard sell to retailers, perhaps this was the only way to get them out there at all?
I don’t know. I do know the rest of the fandom could do well to reflect upon your perspective.
I dont think anyone could have sauid it any better. I agree with you 100%. I will also always support the line, and I look forward to seeing what else Hasbro has in store for the brand.
It’s not just the articulation (or lack thereof) for me, the look and the feel of these toys leave me indifferent. G.I. Joe is the only toy line I’ve collected as an adult because they’ve always somehow managed to keep a certain something “G.I. Joe” in there that triggered a sense of nostalgia. Even the ROC stuff had it, more or less. Whatever it was, it’s missing from these toys. They could just as easily belong to any toy line. Not that I mind, because I suspect it could very well be the right move for bringing G.I. Joe back to the kids, and I fully hope these are successful with the rugrats, but it’s the end for me. I have no desire to buy something that doesn’t say “G.I.Joe” to me just because it says “G.I. Joe” on the box. I had my fill of that back in 2002.
Now, there will always be adults who buy anything G.I. Joe, but once the newness wears off, I don’t see sustained adult interest here, and precious little of that interest coming from outside the established fanbase. What do I know, though, I’m no V.P. of Marketing for Boys Toys, Hasbro North America.
The HISS tank is quite nice. As much as I like the rubber treads they just didn’t roll freely enough for the new design. This makes sense and will take a great design and put the playability back into it.
I agree wholeheartedly. I think that vehicle actually stands apart as a solid toy, regardless of the driver. Not so much with the Alpha vehicles. Even the newly doored VAMP is solid apart from the driver.
This is how I wanted the VAMP to be from the start. One thing I wouldn’t mind seeing Hasbro do more of, is have a basic weapons platform like the VAMP or HISS with interchangeable weapons. They could then release different versions(think arctic, desert, night ops, armored, dino hunters etc) or instead of releasing a whole new vehicle, release upgrade packs that allow us to customize it on our own.
I can’t comprehend why Hasbro feels they must alienate the collectors to please the kiddies.
I think most of us would have been fine not seeing the enhanced wrist and rocker ankles on figures, as long as we got the standard joints that Hasbro has done an excellent job giving us consistently since the beginning of the 25th line. I have always admired Hasbro for not giving in on articulation and always including figure stands (yeah, with the exception of a few RoC offerings). Nearly every other line they make is haphazard with these things, but with Joe you were always pretty much guaranteed a certain standard.
And now, they have chucked all that out the window to save a buck here and there (while simultaneously raising prices across the board).
They were on a major roll. Fan and non-fan support of the movie has been incredible, the 30th anniversary line was a success, and if they had simply presented this line with at least standard articulation they would have had a pronominal year and LOTs of good will from kids and collectors alike. Instead, they have turned their back on the people that have supported them for the last five years and told us collectors point blank: “We don’t need you. We’re doing this without you. If you want to come along, that’s fine, but don’t think we have any loyalty to you.”.
I really wish I could go to JoeCon, just to tell them flat out what I think of this bullshit move. I feel surprisingly angry and betrayed. Those may seem like strong words for a toy line, but these hi-res reveals have really put me in a funk. I sort of feel like just chucking all future Joe purchases, forgetting the FSS, and moving on. Joe was the one line I felt I could count on… even with the somewhat bland offerings from RoC, they were at least still high quality and consistent. But now… it’s clear we have been thrown to the wolves in the pursuit of a few extra pennies of profit. There’s still only one way I can really sum it up, and it’s vile and I don’t normally feel like it would be a good way of communicating. But it is what it is.
FUCK YOU HASBRO. From one of your (previously) biggest fans.
To not even match the 25th line is just bogus.
No reason to get angry or feel “betrayed”. Hasbro has given you some wonderful stuff recently, appreciate it and move on. Westerners (myself included) have such a hard time with change. When it comes to stuff like this, it’s best to learn how to enjoy things while they’re happening because you fully realize it will not always be this way. Nothing lasts forever, and that includes this movie line. A year from now, who’s to say what “G.I. Joe” will be.
Very well said. And even if we are being “alienated” if you think we’re being alienated because of reduced articulation, there are still plenty of other great things in the line to get excited about. an apparent updated Beachhead in the 3-packs, a great Red Ninja and Zartan, and some other very cool updates that still have the majority of the same POA that we’re used to.
This film and its related merchandise may be Hasbro’s last chance to catapult the G.I. Joe brand back into the minds (and wallets) of mass retailers, if they have to take a bunch of risks with the lowest common denominators, I’d say this is the time to do it.
Doesn’t make me happy, but there appear to still be plenty of things that DO make me happy in the upcoming line. If not, well, we’ve had two solid years of product made JUST for us…let’s give the kids their shot.
Is the F U a little too harsh? I am not okay with it either, and I will vote with my wallet, but they are a corporation out to make money, and their primary customer is the retailer, not us! it’s not like they did this to you personally. Besides, they are just toys.
The thing that slays me is that we go from POC/Renegades/30th to this. The real bummer is that I like these designs. My initial reaction was much more positive than the first time I saw the ROC stuff.
Me too! the designs I saw were amazing. With the tiny undetailed pics i was preparing to spend a lot of money. Now I will be picking and choosing from the highly articulated ones, and leaving the rest behind.
Is there any chance that these are not finished products?
Sooo they are reducing articulation to cut costs?
Well then I will also cut my costs. No Retaliation figures without the normal 25th Anniv. articulation for me. Thank you for saving me money Hasbro.
Those Red Ninjas are going to be hard to find.
The Ghost Hawk II is in the movie trailer. Those are not Cobra Rattlers.
Hasbro has already dropped most drivers for the Star Wars line. They might as well have done that to this line.
That Ninja Combat Cruiser driver would have made a great army builder, had it not have been to those 5 points articulations. Why can’t hasbro trade those useless missile launchers for better accessories or added articulations.
I wonder about the interchangeability of some of the under-articulated figure’s heads to more articulated bodies. Will it be possible to pop the head off of Clutch and re-use it on another figure body from the previous lines? Sadly, there is not enough custom fodder left at any store now for anybody to stock up on bodies for use with these.
Also, I am becoming more global-environment aware in how I use my toy collection, and I just cannot throw away THAT MUCH plastic. This makes the Collector Club Figure Subscription Service look like a Home Run and a total BARGAIN.
WTF? Okay explain to me how all of the $ that went into new tooling for a figures that don’t have much articulation saves $ over popping a new head on a old body. Yes I would have rather seen them re-use bodys rather than seeing them be new and not up to the standard that GI Joe has set for the action figure line. I will still pick up some of these vehicles because they are cool in themselves but not all of them. Hey that Vamp pained black would make a really cool Stinger. I think what upsets me the most is how great these figures look take Clutch for an example great new look one that I absolutly love until I see the limited articulation. Unfortunatly this has become a standard of movie based toys. Look at all of the Marvel based line most if not all of them are molded with little or no articulation. Am I surprised by this for GI Joe ……..yes I am I never thought that a line that has ALWAYS had vehiches with drivers would give us these figures with such limited articulation. What does this mean for the future? Well here is the double sided sword, One one side if these do sell well at retail limited articulaion could become the standard. The other side is if they don’t sell well ………..draw your own conclusion.
My opinion for what it’s worth is they should have given this movie line the same chance as the ROC line had at retail.
I’ve thought the same thing about using old molds. That “ultimate” Snake-eyes body arms and legs could be used for 20 figures I can think of off the top of my head (DDP Shipwreck, DDP America’s elite WWIII team all wore similar, firefly, shockwave, and of course the original 13!) Sadly I am guessing it is still cheaper, because they are using much fewer molds per figure.
I bet the ninja in the Dojo battle set is some kind of training Snake-Eyes.
Also its kind of weird that the Ripsaw has the Arashakage symbol on it.
I appreciate your optimism, and I hope there’s still things we haven’t seen that create more positivity, but this is such a foolish decision on Hasbro’s part. I can’t for the life of me fathom what they were thinking, after the Joe brand had been through such a decline after Rise of Cobra underperformed to again play Russian roulette with it’s chance to succeed is just asinine, plain and simple. What they have done by cheaping out and cutting articulation is to not just cut down purchases, but eliminate certain customers altogether. I have spent about 600 dollars or more in the last year on G.I. Joe in the last year, and planned to continue to do so, but I have NO interest in lesser product, especially after we’ve seen just how good it can be in the last year. I hope Joe still does well enough to allow us to still get some decent product here and there, and I’ll definitely have some extra money available for the SDCC exclusives now, but my biggest issue with this is the complete lack of forsight on display with this decision, because they have just shot their profit in the foot.
I know they would argue the loss of articulation is a cost issue, but to me that rationale doesn’t hold water because they have to be aware on some level that cutting articulation is going to cost them sales on a pretty significant level, and I just can’t understand why they would risk having Joe fall off the radar yet again. It’s a shame, but it’s no one’s fault but their own.
“…they have to be aware on some level that cutting articulation is going to cost them sales on a pretty significant level…”
They’re gambling that articulation isn’t a big deal to the customers who matter most, kids and their parents. They’re betting that lost adult collector sales won’t be that significant, and will be more than offset by increased child purchases. Could be that they’ve accepted that sales will only reach a certain level, and they’re gearing up to maximize profit at that level. They’re doing this with all action figure based brands too–Star Wars, Marvel movie stuff, G.I.Joe–so it’s a market-wide decision. Seems like one last gasp at making the small boy’s toy segment profitable again. The fact is, we don’t really know how this market segment is doing. Could be that profits of even the heavy hitters are Kate Moss slim, maybe trends show that the “nostalgic adult collector” boom is turning to bust, G.I. Joe as a brand might actually be losing money… insiders have been predicting the death of the action figure for a decade and a half now, maybe we’re closer than we realize.
I get what you’re saying, but I think my biggest issue is that they’re “gambling” at all. Joe took a serious hit when the movie line underperformed, and by making these changes they’re alienating their core group of supporters yet again, while hoping that the kids will make up for it, which is what burned them last time. I’m frustrated because I feel there is no sound logic for making this move, and I feel like those of us who have kept the series going strong the last few years are basically being told “Thanks for that, and we don’t need you anymore.”
“…I feel like those of us who have kept the series going strong the last few years are basically being told “Thanks for that, and we don’t need you anymore.”
One can also look at the flip side and see it as, “We’ve given you guys (adult collectors) pretty much everything you’ve asked for–you’re welcome, BTW–but it’s still not enough, sales-wise, to justify the cost of designing, producing and marketing such complex toys.” Hasbro has to gamble here. If they don’t gain some interest from the tykes, the brand is sunk. It’s already on the outs with retailers, the collector base is relatively tiny (compared to Star Wars and T-formers) and I’m certain that Hasbro execs are eyeing G.I. Joe as a shit-brand, eating resources without bringing much back to the table.
Personally, I see this line as completely different than the ROC toys. Those toys seemed like they were designed for adult collectors, with some goofy oversized accessories thrown in for kid appeal. It was a compromised line from the beginning, with neither collector nor kid ending up completely satisfied. This Retaliation stuff, on the other hand, looks to my eyes like it has been designed exclusively for children. There is no compromise this time. No geeky adult collector definition of “military realism”. No muted colors. No (or very few) “off-screen characters” kids have never heard of. This line is superhero-esque and very kid friendly. If it fails, it’ll be due exclusively to kids just not giving crap about G.I. Joe, and not because it features stuff kids don’t find cool.
I agree, but if the gamble fails and the brand takes another hit and doesn’t catch on with kids, they’re going to expect us to bail them out again. I don’t disagree with the point you’re making, but I feel like they’re shooting themselves in the foot out of the gate, because I was going to buy a bunch of these, but now I’m only picking up figures that are compatible with what I have. I know they don’t need me specifically, but I think making a choice that loses a percentage of your buyers that have been with you all along is a poor one, especially if you’re banking on kids to pick up the slack, because they’ve been burned by that mindset before, and they’re basing this decision on something they’re hoping will happen, as opposed to something they have solid data for.
I get what your saying, but I don’t see how Hasbro has any choice but to gamble for wider, mass-market appeal. To not gamble means the line is finished as a retail presence anyway, and that would mean, among other things, that collectors would lose out on mass-market retail pricing and availability at the very least, and at the very worst, lose the brand altogether. Hasbro only has three other options: turn G.I. Joe into a line geared exclusively toward collectors, which would mean online/specialty shop only availability and the resulting higher “collectible” prices (think Mattel’s He Man line), completely overhaul everything about the brand and turn into something unrecognizable to us as “G.I. Joe”, or scrap it completely.
We’re also forgetting that in Hasbro’s eyes, this isn’t a “gamble”. It’s business. To them it’s a toy line first, and toys are for kids, so they’re only doing what’s necessary to attract that target buyer. We aren’t privy to the numbers, but it’s become obvious that neither Hasbro nor the major toy retailers are thrilled by the brand’s sales performance. Don’t forget that Hasbro gave G.I. Joe as an adult collector oriented brand a shot, and it proved unsustainable. Maybe that’s the “mindset” they’ve been burned by, and the lesson they remember. It’s equally obvious that certain major retailers don’t much cotton to the idea of carrying collectible toys for adults. One in particular is overtly hostile to adult toy collectors.
Bottom line, Hasbro needs the brand to sell to a wider audience beyond adult collectors because we’re not a large enough market to float G.I. Joe as a mass-market retail item. Our purchases just aren’t enough to keep the brand viable in the eyes of WalMart, Target and TRU.
If that is the case I would gladly pay more for the likes of the 30th stuff if it had to come through a MOTUC subscription process or something like that. I don’t know if the Club has the infrastructure to do that. Yes, I know they are doing the sub now but there are also figs on the shelves. What I mean is I don’t know if they have the manpower to move the entire collector market throught the Club.
They don’t, unless it’s subsidized by Hasbro. I’d prefer they work with HTS for something like this…otherwise we’ll get more Big Brawlers, Surefires and other such vanity pieces.
Anyway, I’m with you; I wouldn’t mind paying a premium for a few figures a year if they’re all the quality of Low-Light, SciFi and etc. I’m still a bit astounded we able to get such amazing, detailed figures through “normal” retail channels and “normal” retail prices.
I really wouldn’t care how they got back to producing stuff like Renegades, I would just start buying again.
So, we’re being charged more for an inferior product and in a down economy. Thanks, Hasbro!
I just can’t abide by dollar store defenders articulation, just won’t tollerate it. That be the case….I’m out.
Barely any poc or 30th in the brick and mortars anyway. Hopefully the chap mei junk is for kids and we’ll still, at least, get
cool stuff, new dtc, new anniversaries, club stuff, new exclusives, etc….
Tragic if it all goes gi joe extreme!
I am OK with the ankles and the knee articulation going away for some of these figs, actually. Do I prefer more articulation? You bet, but as long as they have the same hips and can grip their weapons, I can take that sacrifice. What I’m most concerned with is the 5-pointers. There really doesn’t seem to e any good reason for these. The “driver-as-accessory” mentality really has to stop, and I can’t grasp how it can seem like a good idea to anyone. The Captain America vehicles, for instance…pretty great vehicles, with a chunk of plastic worthlessness included. Now Joe is going that route, and it’s a shame. I say save the money on 5 or six “staction” drivers and give us two well articulated single-figures, Hasbro. Guess I’ll tell ’em at Comic Con this year, and by not buying any of the Alpha vehicles.
Sounds like a good plan and a reasonable reaction. I do hope that by posting this article I don’t give the impression that I think this is a “good idea”. I absolutely don’t. I detest the idea of cutting articulation.
But as you say, I can deal with some range of motion in the knees or ankles being lost as long as the figures still look great, which I believe these do. I hate that they feel the need to cut articulation anywhere, but I also don’t think jumping to conclusions and thinking the entire line will end up cut is a wise decision. This is a cost cutting move in regards to producing vehicles, nothing more, and it falls right in line with what we’ve been seeing for the past few years.
If I have to look at a product thinking about a feature that is a NON-feature, then it tips the scales against that purchase. I would rather that Hasbro would just leave the vehicle drivers out if they cannot make them in a higher articulation standard.
Now that I have had some time to think about it here are my final thoughts on the matter.
I won’t accept less quality for a higher price. I’m assuming Hasbro has reduced the articulation for a cost saving measure. It might even make sense for drivers. Most of the time I leave them in the seat/cockpit and a good looking sculpt will look great in the seat. However the thought of paying more for less articulation than a 25th anniversary figure is something I won’t do. I will vote with my dollars and buy the figs that have equal articulation. I’ve expended too much energy on something that won’t change. It won’t change anything to call Hasbro names or stuff like that. It makes me sick to my stomach to think that no ankle joints and wrists might be going away. One of the things I love about Gi Joe is the articulation.
Those of us going to TF, Joe Con, SDCC have an obligation if it riles you up to tell Hasbro what we think of this. Did they really expect that this wouldn’t be an issue? The Tank has 144 pages on a thread exactly like this.
I’ve seen several comments questioning how these driver figures save money since they are still new toolings being made. The money saved isn’t from the tooling but from the assembly standpoint. If you take apart a 30th figure that has all the new POA so that you have all the basic parts and then do the same with a 5 POA figure and reassemble them, the 5 POA figure will take less time. That’s where Hasbro is saving money. With less time to assemble a figure, more figures can be made and thus more money earned. While I agree that this type of change is incredibly disapointing, the reasons behind it and the factors that led to it are understandable. Besides, for all we know, we could see some of these driver figures redone in the main figure assortments with the proper articulation.
you explained it well Erik, I think using fewer molds also save cash as well. With Assembly they may be trying to find ways to cut back on the now more expensive labor?
It looks like they’re going the same route as they did with Iron Man II and Captain America. The basic figures and multipacks will have the standard articulation and the vehicles will have figures with limited articulation.
The mold reuse and the lack of space makes it an easy decision not to get most of these figures. The VAMP is tempting, but probably too big. I’ll reassess when it comes out. The Shockwave HISS looks pretty cool, but I know I don’t have room for that.
As great as PoC and 30th were, it was impossible to find a lot of them at retail. The one thing that really excites me is that we’ll [hopefully] see a larger presence at retail.
*”The mold reuse and lack of space makes it an easy decision not to get most of these figures.” Meant to say vehicles, not figures. I’ll grab the basic figures that I like and that multipack with Dice.
Well, this has been pretty depressing. I’m new to G.I. Joe, only got into the line because I thought the articulation was amazing. I love this line because the articulation is so excellent, and I’m just not seeing it here. More money to track down those PoC figures I still need, I guess.
I would hate having drivers with 5 pts of articulation back in the 80s. I can deal with some figures having one knee (so long as it can bend just over 90° (like they did in the 80s and 90s) and cutting out ankles.
Anything less than the 1980s Joe articulation is pretty pathetic terrible, limits the driver’s use (I mean why even bother with the cool looking Ninja Cruiser Driver or Clutch? they can’t do anything now. It goes against the goodness that is G.I. Joe.
all the talk about articulation points, one thing has been missed:
Why do the figures previewed so far look so different from the on-screen characters they’re supposed to represent?
Maybe they are using some spare parts they already have molded but didn’t use yet to further save costs?
Who’s to say we won’t be getting movie accurate designs in later assortments?
The Clutch that comes with the Tread Ripper does look like Rock’n’Roll v2. He also looks like the Mega Marines version except with a beard and less loud BDUs.
There’s hope. GIjoe.com says 14 more items will be revealed soon.
I’ve been thinking about the Arashikage hexagram on the vehicles. Do you think they will have customizing stickers similar to the Skystriker where you can choose either GIJoe or Arashikage decals? Just curious.
However I am now trying to picture the scene in the movie.
Roadblock: The world isn’t going to save itself, we need some equipment.
Lady Jaye: Snake Eyes says we could sneak into his old ninja clan’s remote mountain fortress and “borrow” some equipment.
Flint: That’s brillant! That is the last place Cobra would expect us to go. And hey we should be able infiltrate the dojo of a bunch of sneaky assassins without them realizing we are there.
I’ve come to terms with the lack of articulation. Remember, if you let your voice be heard, D.B.A.D!
A lot of people are saying the HISS tank no longer has the pop up mechanism. Is that true? I really don’t care it was kind of neat but the lack of rolling ability hindered it more. Tanks are like jelly, I’ve got to have some jelly with my roll. Booyah!
The thing I find odd is that my impression is is that kids like toys that look like the movie characters which these do not. Collectors like accessories and articulation which these do not have. It seems an odd mix of decisions although I’m fine with the sculpts because I think they look good.
Do you think these and the mentioned 14 figs are the bulk of the movie line?
I’m confused. Are the SDCC Jinx meant to both be “classic” Jinx, or are either one supposed to be GI Joe Retaliation Jinx (ala SDCC Destro/James McCullen XXIV) from a few years ago. If it’s “classic”, I’m fine, but if it’s the movie version, that’s extra frustrating. Very frustrating if that’s the only way to get Retaliation Jinx and it’s difficult to get like every other SDCC exclusive/variant in the last few years.
The red one looks pretty classicy to me and I’m pretty sure that’s what they were going for. I think it’s pretty silly to think that this will be the only way we get a Retaliation Jinx. I the RoC line we got at least 6 female figures, one of which wasn’t even in the movie. I seriously doubt we won’t get at least one Jinx and I think it’s likely we’ll get at least 2 both movie themed. I think Justin’s reasoning for why we’re getting the classic themed one at SDCC is right on the money. Between this, the club figure and what we’re likely to get in the movie line, I don’t think there will be a shortage of Jinx figures to choose from. At least now we know why the club went in the direction they went with their Jinx.
The sculpts are as amazing as the articulation is crappy on those vehicle drivers. Sad.
I was hopping with joy when I saw the cobra trooper and the storm shadow sculpts. Too bad hasbro’s cut back on vital articulation.
The line doesnt look like a total loss for the adult collector crowd. We get some very nice vests, body parts and vehicles atleast. And a parachute.
I believe we can still salvage the figures wiht the one dimensional ankle movement. Just need a dremel to the hip socket to give it some sideways range to compensate.
Relatively, No web gear, no holsters, no sheaths, etc….
We’re just innundated with awful huge launchers…..
I’ve already got a shoe box full, and for the life of me I can’t figure out why they didn’t make them vehicle compatible.
Here’s another strange question: How much of a disguise is it if Zartan keeps dressing up as characters that already wear masks?
Ha! Good one.
After reading the comments below, you cannot say that Joe fans are not passionate.
I’ve never been a completionist in anything other than comics. In regards to G.I. Joe, I usually buy the Cobra figures and then cherry pick the Joe stuff that I like. I bought a lot of the PoC stuff and bought every Renegades figure released. I’ll cherry pick the Retaliation line as well. So far, it seems I’ll buy all of the Cobra figures, the HISS and maybe the Water Moccasin and a few of the Joe figures. Pretty standard stuff for me.
I can’t believe how many comments are on here. I Thought it was posting a “10 things to calm the collector rage” post here, since a lot of people will see it.
Copied from my own post on TNI and Hiss tank:
10 things to help calm the collector rage.
So I thought I’d offer a little list that I have used to help comfort me and put things in perspective, after the harsh cut backs on some of the new figures. Knowing I love G.I.Joe, and knowing that I need to act like a rational adult, even on the internet, is sometimes hard to mesh with the disappointment and the “Nerd Rage” I (and I think we all) feel at times like these.
10. They are just toys. Let me get that out of the way first. Yes we love em, but ultimately we do have other needs, wants, and loves in our lives. Even if Joe ceases to exist we can find joy in walks in the beach, the opposite sex, pictures of cats on the internet or whatever is non collectors do.
9. Lull times have been some of the most creative for Joe fans. Joecustoms, and GeneralsJoes comes to mind right off the bat. In times when there were no Joe products or stories people made their own. Justin’s dios are more canon to me than IDW,renegades, and DDP and far more true to the heart of Joe IMO. I am not trying to put down the official stuff, only point out fan made stuff can be amazing. This isn’t a full hiatus, but the ROC and sigma six eras showed us some great customs and I expect more can come out of this era.
8. Hiatus or Lull times in buying Joes can equal amazing other purchases. When Sigma Six came on to the scene I didn’t buy any. The designs (aside from the cartoony aesthetic) were great, but the scale wasn’t for me. I watched the toon (that was free to me) and I spent my money elsewhere. I caught up on some things I missed, and I grabbed some things to accompany my Joes on the shelves. The old Aliens figures from Kenner came to mind, I loved grabbing several of those for my Joes to be posed in battle with, that really recaptured my childhood, expanded my “joe verse” and I likely wouldn’t have done it if all my money had been spent on more Joes from retail.
7. Don’t forget what we just had. We just came from the POC/30th era and most of us haven’t got all of that yet. Great new sculpts, new articulation, and a real collector base. That was unusual at retail, and I think Hasbro noticed. We can’t turn are backs on them so quick can we? Airtight was for us, sure I am not going to pretend they are reaching me with some of the new toys, but I still have some amazing figures on their way to me in the mail right now that I can enjoy. My memories aren’t gone! They haven’t taken away anything on my shelf, or placed some sort of embargo from preventing me from enjoying what I have now.
6. The FSS. No, I am not a club member. I wish them no ill but there is only a certain amount of toy money I spend a year. But if you want to send your cash elsewhere, grab some cool Joes and Cobras here is your best bet. Your still supporting the brand, and your supporting it with the articulation we all love. If you plan on having more cash than usual thanks to skipping on some of the retail Joes, it might also soften the effect on your wallet. I may be reconsidering joining the club and grabbing this now that I now I’ll be spending less on the movie line.
5. We can let them know. If you go to SDCC, if you go to Joecon, if we get anymore FAQ’s etc. You can voice your opinion. You have been on here, and you can with your wallet. You are not powerless here. This isn’t a divorce with a restraining order. I am sure they are already aware of how we feel but be respectful, and yes share with them. It can have an affect down the road.
4. you still have the movie. Guys let’s be honest, ROC wasn’t a masterpiece. A few of us enjoyed it but I think most of us are more amped up for a new movie. Even if you don’t buy the figures form it, it will be nice to see Joe on the bigscreen again, and it almost feels like we are waiting to see the first real Joe movie. This will be the first time for the classic cobra commander faceplate , firefly, Roadblock, flint, Lady Jaye, Jinx, Red ninjas, the Original Joe, General Joe Colton himself and maybe more to be on the big screen. The figures don’t detract from the quality of the movie itself and personally I am more amped about the movie than I am worried about the vehicle drivers.
3. That new movie can reach a new audience. I don’t just want Joes for myself I want them to stay on the shelves for when I have kids (I am trying to work on that now btw.) Joe is doing what it can to stay on the shelves and find some new finds for plastic toys. This is it’s best chance to do that. The Rock has stirred up a lot of attention to the upcoming movie. New writers were hired, a new director was hired, they have worked to improve what was good, and eliminate what was bad about ROC. They want to reach new people here. Rather than focus all our energy on what we aren’t getting, we should spend at least some of it being thankful that this could be a chance to breathe new life in to the hobby. New Fans can find their way back to the super articulated stuff, new kids buying the product can equal better sales, maybe a new toon, maybe even more product!
2. The retailers are their primary customers. We have to realize Hasbro is in this for cash, they are a business. Their primary customer isn’t even us. Hasbro toy shop is even a separate entity. They have to please the retailers first. This may do little more than spread your anger around at first, but it might help you to realize, it isn’t all Hasbro’s fault. This may have been the only way to see vehicles at all. We don’t know the demands placed on Hasbro. And no, they can not eliminate the big stores, that equals higher price, and cuts off any chance at a new audience. Look at the comic book market, they went that route, and it is a contributing factor it’s current poor state of health. With oil prices, wage increases, and the ever shrinking toy market, we have to accept there other factors involved here. Let’s not take this personal.
1. They haven’t forgot us: Look at those three pack shots. Who else would that Slice (whatever they call him) and beachhead be for, accept us? Several fans have made similar beachheads and now non customizers can get a more classic looking POC style Beachead for themselves, no paint needed. Slice will go perfectly with the FSS Dice (if you grab him) and I’m pretty sure he isn’t going to be in the movie. He was thrown out their for us adults who remember him. Check out that G.I.Joe trooper. He has all the articulation intact. He has multiple helms ,and even a Mohawk. I can’t help but look at that head and think of Soap and all the Joe fans who want more of a Call of Duty flavor in their fav brand. That Zartan is a clear calling back to renegades. Yes we may want the Jinx at retail, but if it is get her at SDCC or not all, I’ll call in a connection and buy one. There is nothing wrong with picking and choosing, especially what Hasbro is sending out with us in mind. Whatever wave or theme that SS, that Joe trooper, or that zartan came in they would be winners in my back.
I have seen a lot of hateful comments thrown around. I understand the disappointment etc. But we do have a lot to look forward to, and enjoy. Anyone else want to share some positive thoughts?
I completely agree with you on #7. Also, I know people are worried about Jinx but there is no way that they won’t release as part of the main line. Based on the trailer she is an integral part of the story.
After some thought, I think I can sum up my feelings about this pretty succinctly. I don’t want this to blow up in Hasbro’s face, because I’m afraid of what will happen to the brand if it fails after a big movie again. But at the same time, they’re going to have to do it without me, because I’m just not going to buy any figure that doesn’t have the 25th standard of articulation. Which from the photos we see above, means I’ll likely end up buying maybe 5-6 figures, which is a big reduction from one of each which was my original plan. Oh well.
I think that covers what a lot of people are thinking. I see a couple of different scenarios.
1) Retaliation toys are a massive hit. Pro – Probably will mean lots more Joe toys on the way. Con – Hasbro may take that as vindication of the POA reduction and continue down that road
2) Retaliation toys are peg warmers akin to GL. Pro – Will Hasbro take that as limited POA idea is a failure? Go back to better POA? Con – Hasbro drastically scales back on all things Joe
nilcam_dc wrote what he thought he was buying from the Retaliation line, which gave me an idea to type out what I will consider buying. Perhaps everyone should do the same to see if they really hate this line as much as they think.
Here’s mine:
Cobra Commander
Joe Trooper (probably 5-10)
Red Ninja (probably 5)
Roadblock
Snake Eyes
Storm Shadow
Cobra Trooper (probably 5-10)
Battle Set 1
Battle Set 2
Ninja Combat Cruiser
Ghost Hawk II
Shockwave HISS
Both SDCC Jinx
And there are still 14 more reveals coming, so who knows what is left?? Perhaps Hasbro saved the best for last…
It helps that Justin more or less anticipated this, but, you know what?
I’m fine with it. It was pretty much inevitable.
We’ve had it VERY GOOD for the past five years, to be honest with you. Look at the poor bastards who collect Star Wars figures – those are on the shelves more frequently, but at the cost of vastly increased prices and lower-quality figures.
A better example might be what happened with Transformers – prices have gone up, and the overall quality of the figures has utterly tanked. The quality control on TF movie figs is like something out of a Hong Kong knockoff from the 80s. And when TF collectors do get great things like the Generations line, they’re paying incredible prices and battling horrible case assortments. But, at the end of the day, Hasbro’s been getting it right – kids want this year’s Bumblebee, and they don’t care too much about the quality of the figure.
I walked into a store and picked up PoC Snake Eyes for $7.50. That was a ridiculous value. At a certain point, reality was going to intrude and return us to a new normal. It just has.
Based on the standards of toys in general, the Joes in recent years have been incredibly good value for money. To assemble a reasonable collection would require far less monetary input on a collector’s part for a greater return in quality. But, let’s face it… that’s not what the industry in general is.
We were lucky for a few years. That luck has (partially) run out. If Hasbro has to move to a Transformers model of lower-quality, mass-market focused toys in movie years and better product when there isn’t one, then I’m fine with that option.
Well, this is utter crap. Who are these kids you think will be buying the toys? 13 year olds? This is a PG-13 movie, right? My kid loves GI Joe, but won’t be seeing the movie since he’s only six. And I won’t be buying him the toys if this is the quality they are going to try to pass off. It’s a shame. Why make a movie like GI Joe, clearly aimed at pulling in the nostalgic adults who grew up with ARAH, and then try to pass off toys to their kids that have less articulation than Power Team Elite or Lanard The Corps? Do they really think all of the dads from the 80’s won’t notice that these figures are trash?
Well, I guess I can spend more money on LEGO Lord of the Rings this year, since Hasbro and GI Joe won’t be getting it.
as a parent and a collector i am just not going to pay more for less. i would have been more willing to pay more for the same quality we have gotten. as it is right now it looks like i will army build the red ninjas, if the quality is what it appears,the dojo battle with “beachhead”, and the slice set is a maybe, but other than that it looks like i am waiting for clearance at tj max to pick and choose fodder material. its a shame too, i had hoped hasbro would have learned from the mistakes of ROC line, and made retaliation toys far and above what ROC was. instead they went backwards.