Obviously the fandom is pretty on edge these days, as evidenced by my monstrous comments section for my last post in regards to the whole Rise of Cobra/Pursuit of Cobra transition. Well, leave it to my good buddies at the Terror Drome to add more potential fuel to the fire with their keen eye.
Recent images emerged of potential upcoming G.I. Joe and Cobra mech suits, using the tooling from the 2.5″ Sigma 6 Iron Hammer. Something that went unnoticed with those images (by most folks except the aforementioned Terror Drome gents) was that the G.I. Joe figure had a different logo on his vest. Now, keep in mind, most Pursuit of Cobra items we’ve seen so far have had the familiar Rise of Cobra movie Eagle and Shield logo, tying them tightly into that movie universe. Well, things now seem to potentially be branching out a bit. Click the “Read the Rest of this Entry” link below to check out the full details.
I’m actually going to take it a bit further as well, even if it might be a stretch:
As the guys at The Terror Drome so astutely pointed out, there is a nice, flashy, updated logo for the G.I. Joe Convention in 2010…and the three stripes and star seem eerily similar to that outlined Joe logo on the vest of the Mech pilot. Well, not only that, but now take a look at the mysterious package art. As noted by many folks, Hasbro has seemingly gone back to the familiar three-stripe format in the logo, which would match up with the stripes/star look in the other two images. Not only that, but the chrome type finish is fairly consistent between all logo “looks”, and the blue coloring on the GIJCC logo is a pretty clear match for the general blue coloring of the card art in that third image.
What this looks like to me is a pretty clear indication that not only is the package art legitimate, but it’s also a sign that Hasbro is indeed branching out from the Rise of Cobra universe, is probably dropping the “Pursuit of Cobra” name and refinining their assortments into a more direct “G.I. Joe” line this fall. Which also begs the question… who is the driver of the Mech? Is it Duke? And if it is Duke, why does he not have Channing Tatum’s face?
Of course, as always this all comes back to…was Rise of Cobra a success or failure? Now, I would hope that most folks who check out my site would realize that I am FAR from a Rise of Cobra “hater”. In fact, quite the opposite. From day one I’ve lavished countless praise upon the toyline, and slight frustration (sometimes not so slight) with the rest of the fandom for not embracing this cool new style. I have zero doubts in my mind that the Rise of Cobra toyline outsold many G.I. Joe toylines of recent years. But that’s inconsequential. It all comes down to expectations.
If…say… Iron Man was expected to sell 25,000 units, and it sold 24,000, it would be considered a monstrous success. It nearly sold out, even with sales only around 24,000. So, say the Rise of Cobra is on the horizon, and Hasbro sets expectations at 200,000. Well, if the toys sold 75,000 units, it would have tripled the sales of Iron Man toys, yet would still have been considered a potential failure, because it didn’t meet expectations.
Certainly, I have little doubt that RoC outsold the 25th Anniversary line… I’m absolutely certain of it. But if they expected to sell 50,000 Anniversary figures and sold 40,000, that’s a good thing. If RoC sold triple that at 150,000, but was expected to sell 300,000, well, it still outsold the Anniversary line, but it still missed expectations by 50%.
I’ve been in the toy collecting “business” for a long, long time. I’d think by now I’d have a good understanding of collector response, sales trends, industry talk, etc… and my feel is that the Rise of Cobra toyline sold well, but did not meet expectations. When prices drop, it’s not a good thing. Seeing Pits on sale for $48.00 is great for my own personal wallet, but only means bad things for the toy itself. I stocked up on $5.00 figures over the past few months, but if sales had been meeting expectations, we’d still be dropping $8.00 or $9.00. I’ve seen lots of folks expressing fear and hesitation about the future of the brand based on movie sales…I’m not quite so concerned. Sure, the mainline looks to be halted for a little while, but I have little doubt that we will still see a fairly steady stream of Joe product throughout 2010, and if my gut instinct is right, there will be some neat surprises at Toy Fair that may open some eyes. If not at Toy Fair, than certainly JoeCon in April.
I mean, just look at the past ten years…it’s blatantly obvious that Hasbro isn’t willing to let G.I. Joe fade away. They have hammered the brand relentlessly, practically non-stop, since 1998 and don’t look to be easing up any time soon. There may be some more face lifts, but who knows, maybe they’ll be for the better? Maybe the vintage style fans and Resolute fans will have more to celebrate this year than they think? Time will tell.
I haven’t commented on the leaked package art or the Club’s new logo because I’m waiting to see what comes out at Toy Fair. But my opinion is similar to yours. I think the RoC line sold well but below expectations for a movie line. I have my thoughts on why that is (bland movie designs, over-saturation of certain waves by retailers) but I think Hasbro did the best they could with what they had to offer. I believe they looked at the first Transformers movie and all the merchandise that FLEW off shelves when it hit and took that as their model for G.I. Joe. Unfortunately the two franchises are completely different. Transformers has had an animated series on TV almost continuously for the last 25+ years. G.I. Joe hasn’t had that constant media exposure and so brand awareness, even bolstered by a feature film wasn’t the same. Expectations for the toyline were too high and thus a “failure”. Had the line been a financial success I’m sure the Pursuit of Cobra sub-theme would have carried on as planned. But things don’t always work out the way we hope and now Hasbro is making a smart choice in the branding of G.I. Joe. Getting away from the Rise of Cobra theme and mixing Pursuit of Cobra into a more traditional theme is the best way to keep the brand fresh. I look forward to what comes out at Toy Fair and JoeCon because I really like what has been hinted at so far.
Very well said Justin. I’ve been trying to say the same thing more or less but somehow people aren’t really in the mood for listening.
IF the only thing this delay is about is making some changes to packaging and stuff as they change their direction then all is fine in Joe land. In fact, all is wonderful.
My greatest fear has always been this. If store shelves have been filled to the brim with RoC toys and the stores had to take a loss and sell them at discount (that’s a loss of profits, not that they actually paid more than they sell them for)then I fear most of the companies may not be so quick to embrace the next iteration of GIJoe. It all depends on how much the high-ups at companies know about GIJoe. And that maybe they realize that they stocked too much of the movie line, not that it didn’t sell well enough.
Right now I’m hoping we’ll all be happy as pigs in mud next Fall with cool new toys, and an awesome new cartoon and a cool classic style comic.
Wild Weasel also pointed out at the Terrordrome that the Firefly image on the card art shows more of him or the art than what was shown on the TRU.
This points more the card being legit.
I hadn’t noticed the blue on the star resembling the blue on the card art. Good eye.
Needless to say, ToyFair and JoeCon should be really interesting and I can’t wait until they get here.
I have a good vibe from all of the pics as to what is on the way..I am really looking forward to the Star Viper figure cant wait for him! one other question am I the only one who is itching to see a pic and buy the Crazylegs fig?
Alpine: It’s normal that the card art CAN show more.
They were all painted full body shots.
http://ve3dmedia.ign.com/images/04/61/46176_GIJoeTheRiseOfCobra-Art-01_normal.jpg
http://pressthebuttons.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452033569e20120a5485056970b-800wi
https://generalsjoesreborn.com/2009/07/01/gijoe-com-totally-revamped-for-the-rise-of-cobra/
Card art, yet full body.
This is how they’re all done, so that the image can be reused in other such promotional uses as posters, online wallpapers, wrapping paper and other such fun things.
I truly doubt the “new card style” is legit, as it doesn’t even match the new Joe logo shown. Not even the way GIJoe and the three stripes are “chromed”.
I could still be wrong but it looks very, very fanmade.
Someone on Hisstank has production pieces of the new Mechs. The guy piloting has either blonde, or light, sandy hair. I really think it’s supposed to be Duke.
Like many of you, I’m concerned too that the movie and it’s toy line did not meet the expectations that Hasbro had for it, but despite that I’m also still hopeful. As the General pointed out, Hasbro may have given G.I. Joe more face-lifts in the last decade than an O.C. housewife, but they’ve still stuck by the brand and keep trying to make it the major pop culture force it was back in the 80’s. Even with worries that “Rise of COBRA” might have hurt more than helped our favorite action figure line, everything upcoming this year that’s been hinted at have me ecstatic. A lot of the new figures and vehicles have looked very impressive, we’re getting a continuation of the original Marvel comic series, AND there’s also the rumored new animated series. Now all these little hints doesn’t mean things will go 100% smoothly. We’ve all had too many experiences with Hasbro’s negative ability to ‘take one step forward and two steps backwards’. So I’ve still got my fingers crossed and am anxiously awaiting February and April.
Also, if that is the new Joe logo I think it’s excellent. Blue and silver have always been good colors for them (even though I’m a snake for life).
If there’s always been one problem with G.I. Joe, historically the military leaning can’t compete with superheroics. The Transformers – although arguably cyberpunk in origins – are super heroes just like Batman, Spider-Man, and Superman. With the exception of the 1980s, G.I. Joe has never had the upper hand against super heroes.
As far as the upcoming waves go…don’t be surprised if Duke resembles the classic look. The Action Battlers line had the classic look of Duke, so that’s not a big issue. I’ve got to say this – two things came at play with the film: resentment of the foolhardy Bush Administration, and the skepticism of the fanbase.
When the movie was announced, the studio made it clear that G.I. JOE was an international antiterrorisim task force. We knew this was coming. After the Iraqi Invasion and its backlash, there was no way G.I. Joe could be an “All American Hero”. Secondly, the producer and director were interviewed way back in a 2004 issue of Toy Fare Magazine. They gave a near exact outline of the plot. Latino Review released an early draft. In other words, if you followed the movie’s genesis, you knew what was going to happen; it was all about the execution.
I think too many people in the Joe fanbase remain too skeptical about the film and potential sequels. Rather than argue about the failure of the project, think about this:
1. Maybe Stephen Sommers is in negotiations to helm the sequel(s). Perhaps he doesn’t want too many potential threads revealed in “The Pursuit of Cobra” line.
2. Paramount literally owns the trademarks to several designs. Therefore, Hasbro has to make deviations in the Joe shield. That’s the price you have to pay for getting film adaptations done.
Let’s wait until February – a matter of weeks from now – and see what Hasbro will release. And try not to be so skeptical about the movie franchise. Do you stop to consider – if all the “diehard” fans went to see the film in first run – maybe there wouldn’t be any questions on the line’s direction. And as such, the film still grossed $300 million.
Jay, since this has more art on the card, it either means someone stole the art from Hasbro or it is legit.
one theory that derrick came close to hitting, is in order for hasbro to avoid the licensing fees paid to paramount they are relaunching the look. this is to either get the price down to sell more toys, or to make more profit. the images of the logo and actors faces all likely belong to paramount. if hasbro continued to make toys in the movies image long after the marketing machine died down, paramount would basically be getting money for nothing and hasbro losing a chunk of profit. hasbro stated in one of the Q and A’s that one of the main reasons for the cost increase to $7.99 was due to paying licensing fees.
Jay, most of us are fully aware they create the art full body. But like I said over at the Terror Drome and Alpine here said, unless someone found that art online (which is highly unlikely at this point*) or stole it, I think this points to more proof the card art is legit. Now whether it is a final version at this point remains to be seen, but I believe the card art to be legit. I think that coupled with Hasbro telling HT to take it down only re-confirms this.
As for what all this means, it is quite possible that Pursuit of Cobra was (and could still be at some level) Hasbro’s follow-up to the Rise of Cobra. But since JoeCon was right after the release of the movie and only a month after the product hit the shelves, I think they didn’t have a good gauge on the success or failure of the line. So like Justin and others have said, I think they are “re-aligning” the brand to give a slightly different approach to it for retail(ers).
* I say this is unlikely because someone would have found it online by now and shared the source with others. It has happened many times before. And other than the main characters IN THE MOVIE, no other full body art has shown up that matches the card art.
I’ve read somewhere (more than likely Hisstank) that internationally, the ROC toy line tanked, and would not be continued in those regions. It really makes sense that if Hasbro has to scale the line down to target American (and Canadian) audiences, this is the direction they’d take. I think Hasbro (and Paramount) had a grand plan that Joes would be a hot commodity worldwide after the movie and when that didn’t equal out to toy sales, Hasbro pulled the plug on the International task force feel to focus the line back to being ‘A Real American Hero’. This would certainly seem to be evident with the classic stars & stripes logo, and patchwork on the figs. But how about trying this on for size…What if the Mechs were actually prototypes for the Joe Con exclusives? Remember that the Crimson Strike Team Tomax and Xamot starting popping up on the international markets long before anyone knew what they were for. That would account for the Joe Con logo, and the ‘Duke’ vest patch matching. Just a thought. I’m very excited for February.
Rise of Cobra pretty much failed, well not failed as he said but didn’t meet expectations, because of 2 main reasons. The first being of which that Hasbro severely overpriced these toys. 8 dollars for 1 figure? 20 dollars for a mini-vehicle? Hasbro either failed to notice or just totally underestimated the economic crisis that is going on in America these days. If these items had been priced from July 1 onwards at the levels they are now, they’d have flown off the shelves.
The second reason is that Gi Joe is cursed to have a fanbase that is so stubborn and so unwilling to accept change for the most part, that there was little to no chance that Rise Of Cobra was gonna succeed. These people need to wake the hell up and realize that Hasbro does more for its Gi Joe fans than any other company does for any toyline out there today or ever for that matter. I’ve been saying for years that I wondered when the day would come that Hasbro would simply shut off from its fans because of their unwillingness to accept change and to admit that Hasbro at least tries and tries damn hard to please its Gi Joe fans.
I like your thinking Andrew, but one problem, Hasbro already told us that retooled S6 Mechs were coming to the main line in late 2010. So I still feel that it is the new Joe “team logo” we are looking at. I think the brand as a whole is getting reworked pretty much for the reasons you stated.
Rise of Cobra was clearly based outside of the fanbase. ROC was Hasbro’s attempt at breathing new life into the franchise, and I don’t think it worked to the level Hasbro wanted. This has nothing to do with the stubborn fanbase because, as everyone is so quick to point out when the shoe is on the other foot, fans make up a small percentage of the G.I. Joe toy sales. ROC didn’t meet expectations because of the die hard fans, ROC didn’t meet expectations because they couldn’t pull the kiddies away from the Playstation.
Andrew Hall: I doubt the Joe mech driver is Duke. His head is Airborne’s head. They wouldn’t use that for Duke.
Jay–Call it a hunch. I believe that’s Duke. I believe the cobra figures is Destro.
YoJoeski–Mattel does more for it’s fans with toylines such as He-Man and Ghostbusters than Hasbro does for it’s Joe fans or older collectors. Hasbro had the perfect opportunity to continue filtering out 25th Joes with the ROC line. I’m not talking about Joes who have a “codename” and nothing else in common with it’s ARAH counterpart such as Footloose, RocknRoll, Repeater and Dial Tone.
The significance of that? Hasbro stated several times that the classics would be integrated into the ROC line. Besides repaints like Snow Serpent and Para Viper, that turned out not to be true. The ROC line would have had much more life in it had Hasbro cared to take the time to make the product appeal to both young and older collector alike.
It’s not like they didn’t know 25th stuff was hot with the older collectors. So I have to disagree with your statement.
So true Andrew Hall. How many times was it said (mostly on Hisstank.com) that ROC was what Joe was destined to be, something new for the kids (I can agree with this) and that there was no room to appeal to both kids and collectors (this is where I disagree) because collectors were only a small percentage and not important.
I guess that simply wasn’t true.
And now some of those same people are trying to blame the current state of affairs with the line on the collectors!
Numbers…where are the numbers???
The next Q&A round could be a good opportunity to ask Hasbro the following:
1) Was the RoC line a failure or not?
2) Will be PoC line released?
3) If not, what is the plan B? A simple “G.I.Joe” line? Cartoon based? And what about Resolute?
I was in NYC two months ago, and I saw hundreds of G.I.Joe figs on the pegs. More than I ever saw on my trips to Florida on the 80s. But I haven´t seen children buying those figs. I´ve seen them more interested on SW and TF.
Here in Brazil, the stores were fulled (on July) with waves 1 & 2 items (except for Sgt. Stone), but they didn´t sold, so the prices are dropping. Here is a fact: children are not interested on Joe stuff. The movie was a failure. Only fans from 80s know what G.I.Joe is.
Do you see the same occuring on USA? Numbers…
Alvarobm, I’m really looking forward to Toyfair to see Hasbro’s product and hear their statements regarding the line.
Get ready to catch alot of mud in the face for your comments. Heads up!
Actually, Heavy Metal and Thunder were 25th style figures in the ROC line. That is true.
Yeah Alvarobm. We’re seeing the same thing here in the states as well.
And in Canada, which sucks cause it took so long to finally get Joes back on the shelf.
I’m just hoping they stick with it if we get something interesting this year.
1) It’s not at all unusual to see a retail price reduction on a movie line once the theatrical run comes to an end. In fact, it’s pretty much the industry standard. It happened with Iron Man, The Dark Knight, and Revenge Of The Fallen, all of which were very successful. $5.00 at Wal-Mart and $5.99 at Target doesn’t scream, “get rid of this stuff!” Indiana Jones figures were $1 at Wal-Mart after the holidays in ’08, but they’re just now stocking the new exclusive set with Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow. If we see $2 or $3 on these in the next couple of months, then there is a problem. Otherwise, Indiana Jones, Terminator: Salvation, and Star Trek were failures, but The Rise Of Cobra was a strong brand, if not an overwhelming success.
2) The fact that G.I. JOE still gets so much retail space on Target’s post-holiday planogram indicates they are satisfied with its performance. Target does not sit on inventory, period. If something isn’t performing, they will either clearance it out or sell it off to discount retailers. They’re quick to replace nonperformers with new properties in their toy aisle real estate, but they haven’t done that with G.I. JOE. It has more dedicated space than all DC and Marvel action figures combined, which is a testament to
3) Large items are typically the first things to hit clearance at retail. The STAR WARS Turbo Tank is half-price at Wal-Mart right now. On the other side of that coin, my local Target stores have not reduced the price on the Pit, and at least six of more than a dozen locations in my area sold out of it during the holiday shopping season at the full $99.99 price. That number could be higher, but I haven’t been to the other locations yet.
And in response to one of the comments here, more complaints about a movie line lacking redone action figures from twenty-five years ago during its first six months are redundant and irrelevant. Whatever problems the line had, and it absolutely did have its share of problems, its performance would not have been significantly impacted by the inclusion of a few more “classic” characters. Anyone who believes Mattel, “does more,” for its fans should count the number of “classic” characters released in the 25th Anniversary line and see how that total compares after two years of MOTUC and Ghostbusters combined, not to mention the hassle MOTU fans have endured while trying to collect the new figures. For that matter, just have a look at their lousy attempt at a 3¾” scale DC line. For all the negativity that’s directed at Hasbro for reuse of existing parts, a brief glimpse at Mattel’s 6″ DC line would send some JOE collectors right into shock.
Having been on board with Mattel since they first acquired the DC license, this idea that they, “do more,” for fans is fallacious at best.
Compulsive, I fully expect to see $2 or $3 dollar price tags on the ROC line in the next 2-3 months. Some within the community–people who would know–have stated a 75% price cut is coming.
Beyond that, I don’t need to bother to comment on the remaining parts of your comments. I know you well, and am familiar with your online personality. I’ll not be goaded by your comments that allude to your supposed infinite wisdom, which is typical behavior from you.
I am aware you own your own shop in NC. For whatever reasons you feel the need to, you stand in support of Hasbro over Mattel. But the fact is, ROC sales were not good because 75% of everyone else who were collecting the brand during the years of 2007-2009 obviously feel different and feel like Mattel reaches out to people more than Hasbro does. Which is why the line is in it’s current state of affairs.
And as much as you would like an argument with someone, you’re going to have settle for disappointment.
I’m not taking the bait.
Wow. You obviously don’t know me well at all, “Alpine”, although it seems I’ve made more of an impression on you than you have on me. I don’t recall ever interacting with you in the past. Are you so easy to forget? First of all, I do not have an, “online personality.” I simply am who I am, and you can ask any of the collectors who’ve met me in person at various conventions or toy aisles about that. Secondly, I absolutely do NOT own my own shop, nor have I ever been affiliated with any collectible retailer of any kind beyond some freelance web design work. If you can’t even get your facts straight about something like that, how can anything you have to say be taken seriously?
And 75% of all G.I. JOE collectors agree with you about Mattel vs. Hasbro? Really? And Mattel being more fan-friendly prevented ROC sales from being good? These are “facts”? Hilarious! Where is the study to back up this preposterous claim? Where were the polls conducted? I don’t feel any “need” to do anything. I offered a rational comparison between the two manufacturers, and you responded with nonsense. Making up percentages to create an imaginary argumentum ad populum is the kind of behavior in which someone who lacks even the slightest modicum of actual knowledge engages. You think I want an argument with you, sir? You flatter yourself. I was simply responding to something I read on this page. Nothing about my first post was an attack against you as a person. If anyone was “looking” for something, it was the know-nothing who simply invents his own “facts” when confronted by factual information that clashes with his own distorted concept of reality.
Compulsive Collector, are you serious?
There is not one thing you say that is “fact”. Nothing you state is backed by evidence, stats or figures of any kind. It is just simply your opinion.
And coming in and telling people the way it is and accusing them of not having any facts to back up their arguements without having a shred of proof to back up your own is hardly “rational”.
If you had been reading past posts in other topics not just this one, you would realize that these opinions on what’s happening with the toy line have been reached by many, many people talking about the state of the toyline in their area, and then hearing what other people are saying and noticing trends.
Is it not reasonable to come to the conclusion that if toystores all over North America have lots of left over stock of RoC that sales were not up to par? My closest Walmart has had the 2 for $10 sale going since early October and is still overflowing with wave 1 and 2 figures as well as 11 Pitts at 75% off. When I say sales are crappy here, that is FACT. Then I here other people say the same thing all over North America and it doesn’t take a genius to understand that something isn’t going as well as planned. Again, that doesn’t mean it didn’t sell well, just not nearly as well as they expected looking at all the product they have made that still sits on shelves.
Now combine that with what is looking more and more like a change in direction with the GIJoe line (based on pics of upcoming Mechs, the supposed new card back design and the PoC toys being pushed back in general)and it’s pretty hard not to draw conclusions that RoC wasn’t as good as expected. Because at first they were all gung-ho to do Pursuit of Cobra hot on the heels of RoC. Now they’ve delayed it and changed the name and look. For some reason they want to distance themselves from RoC. Again, that tends to show that somehow it didn’t work out like they wanted.
And the fact that IDW is now continuing the original Marvel series shows us old time fans do indeed have influence on things, no matter how much others want to believe otherwise.
My opinions are backed with facts like friends who own hobby stores and two friends that run Walmarts and conversations with them regarding how RoC has been doing for them. Yes, that doesn’t represent all of North America, but that’s where we get back to what I mentioned earlier about people talking to each other and finding out the same thing is happeneing in their area.
Since you admit you have no connection with the toy industry, where do you get your “facts” from? Since you’re so quick to insult and belittle, you better have a mountain of evidence to back your “facts” if you want to hold on to any shred of dignity in this discussion.
Clearly Alpine has had some level of dealing with you, Compulsive Collector, as he pretty much stated you were going to try and goad him into a fight. Then, pretty much proving his point, you tried to goad him into a fight. Lol.
It is pretty ghoulish how Alpine and cohorts have such a slanted view on the G.I. Joe franchise. For the most part, I agree with Compulsive Collector. Alpine and a number of people keep downing the movie and trying to steer the image that it was a flopping failure. But the facts:
*Hasbro Toy Shop, Toys R Us, and other online retailers sold out of several items.
*Target and Toys R Us are well past Waves 1 and 2 available on the shelves.
*The figures were released after the Fourth of July. For six months, fans got a volume of goods available. Most Joe waves have started in January, and run their course by the Fall.
In light of the rights issues, how can you say that Rise of Cobra is such an aborted failure? Now you are just as bad as Fox News Channel. You’re trying to ignore reality and twist facts. In spite of nihilistic fanboys, the movie was a success. Mainstream media refer to Sienna Miller, Channing Tatum, and Marlon Wayans each as “star of G.I. Joe”. The film is very popular in video distribution.
Furthermore, as a longtime resident of Metro Atlanta, the market has been a test ground for decades. Between Fulton and DeKalb counties (the core of Atlanta’s population), the toys have sold rather well. And just as expected, the cooler characters (like Snake Eyes) are harder to find. If the project was such a horrific failure, then you wouldn’t see ANY markups or prototypes. But we do. We haven’t seen anything stating that the 3.75-inch line is going on hiatus. We haven’t seen anything like the retreat from 2004’s Valor vs. Venom, when Hasbro shifted to Sigma Six.
If G.I. JOE: The Rise of Cobra was such a voluminous disaster, there wouldn’t be any “stars” from the film; continued sales; sell-outs; the Rise of Cobra movie wouldn’t be in the top ten selling videos. It’s one thing to have your own opinion. But when you IGNORE TANGIBLE FACTS, you are becoming delusional.
Sorry, Hawkwinter, but your “friends” aren’t “facts”, and neither are their anecdotal experiences. To be perfectly straightforward, your idea of “dignity” is not worth the time it took you to type the word, not when you can’t even figure out who it was that was, “quick to insult and belittle.” I didn’t say I had no connection with the toy industry; I said I’ve never been affiliated with a collectibles retailer. Please consider paying attention to what you read before you respond to it.
And apologies again, but my points were certainly more than “simply” opinions. 1) The failed movie lines I mentioned were all heavily clearanced, while the successful ones all saw price reductions during the year, and especially near the holidays. This is a fact, not an opinion. 2) What I said about Target clearly describes how they manage inventory. Their strategies aren’t exactly state secrets. This is a fact, not an opinion. 3) Larger items absolutely do go on clearance sooner than smaller ones, precisely because they require more dedicated retail real estate. The STAR WARS Turbo Tank is 50% off at Wal-Mart, so the notion that clearance means failure would have to apply to that property, as well. Using your logic, STAR WARS is a failed line that has not met expectations. This is a fact, not an opinion. 4) Mattel isn’t even close to the pace necessary to reach the number of “classic” characters released by Hasbro during less than two years of 25th Anniversary/Modern Era with their MOTUC line. There are fans who can’t get a basic Skeletor right now; no one will have any difficulty finding a Cobra Commander. Mattel’s figures use as little new sculpting as they can possibly get away with for each new character. These are facts, not opinions.
If you want opinions, go check out Mattel’s Facebook page, and then try to convince a reasonable person that Mattel has a better relationship with its fans. You will not succeed. For that matter, go ask a DCUC collector about Gleek. Hey, just find me anything Mattel has done “for fans” that would match the release of the Cobra Island seven-packs.
“Is it not reasonable to come to the conclusion that if toystores all over North America have lots of left over stock of RoC that sales were not up to par?”
No, not at all. You’re assuming retailers intended to be rid of all ROC stock immediately following the holidays, but this assumption is baseless. If the brand is still selling, and it clearly is, why wouldn’t retailers want to have it stocked going into 2010? And while you keep harping on the $5 price, you should check with your “friends” about Wal-Mart’s per unit cost of those figures, as the $5 price is still profitable. Most movie lines see high prices, some advertised sales, and then high prices again during the theatrical run. Once the movie leaves theaters, prices drop. This is a very common strategy that you seem to believe translates to failure; it does not. Retailers want to get the absolute most they can while there is hype for a property, and then they lower prices later as demand will invariably decrease after that hype dies.
Furthermore, Wal-Mart was late to the ROC game. Go back and check sightings threads from July. By the time most Wal-Mart stores were getting ROC figures to the floor, many Target and Toys R Us locations had already sold through their initial shipments and restocked with more figures and vehicles. If the line wasn’t as successful for Wal-Mart as it was for Target, it was their own fault for waiting so long to make the toys available. That’s not an opinion, either.
“When I say sales are crappy here, that is FACT.”
Actually, that’s merely your own interpretation of what you see. Based on what I see in your post, I’m not convinced that you’re qualified to process your own experiences logically and objectively to reach a sound conclusion.
“Now they’ve delayed it and changed the name and look.”
They changed the name and look? Where is Hasbro’s announcement about this? Or are you basing this assumption on nothing more than a small digital file that could have originated anywhere? That could be nothing more than part of an exclusive offering? People who believe everything they read/see on the internet can’t be taken seriously any more than people who make up nonsense in desperate attempts to avoid admitting they don’t know the subject matter.
Hasbro referred to the new line as “Pursuit Of Cobra” just seven weeks ago and stated that it would arrive in the “back half” of 2010. Anyone who follows (and understands) this hobby knows that release schedules for toys are never set in stone. Those Cobra Island seven-packs that were supposed to have a fall release? They started shipping in the second week of July. You should also know (and understand) that big movie lines, such as Iron Man 2, will get priority in the late spring and early summer. Where is the big news that Pursuit Of Cobra is expected to make its debut in the “back half” of the year? That could be as early as June or July in toy-speak, and probably no later than August’s fall resets, with more figures and vehicles from The Rise Of Cobra still scheduled for retail release earlier this year. When images of the “mecha” suits were originally shown, they were labeled as coming in “late” 2010. Did you expect Pursuit Of Cobra to start early in 2010? New lines don’t launch immediately after the holidays, period. January and February are the slowest months of the year for new toys at retail in general. This is not an opinion, either.
The sky is not falling, Chicken Little.
And Andrew Hall, if you can read Alpine’s post and arrive at the conclusion that my *response* to his insults were an attempt to “goad” him into anything, then you need to work on your reading comprehension abilities, as well. Not only was he insulting in his reply to my post about toys (not about him), but he fabricated some nonsense about my owning a store in an effort to insinuate I have some hidden reasons behind my comparison of Mattel and Hasbro. Sorry, but I wasn’t the one doing the “goading”, sir.
What’s funny about this conversation, Collector, is that when it’s August and the new ROC-free relaunch of the G.I. Joe franchise is releashed we’re all going to have a great laugh. At your expense.
And Derrick, what are you talking about? The term ‘Stars’ is a term referring to the lead in any movie, not a title earned like ‘General’.
Derrick, it’s not a slanted view of the Joe franchise. It’s pretty much been the case throughout the brand’s history. The original 12″ Joes became unpopular due to the Vietnam War. The line was dropped in favor of the Adventure Team. After the Petroleum Scare of the 70’s, the line was dropped and rebranded into the 8″ Super Joe. After that was an abysmal failure the line sat stagnant for a couple of years (3, I believe) in favor of the 3 3/4 line we all know and love. After numerous rebrandings throughout that run (Street Fighter, Star Brigade, etc.) That line was eventually canceled in favor of the Sgt. Savage 4″ line. Within a year, that line was canceled to make room for the G.I. Joe Extreme 5″ line. After a few years of that, Extreme was canceled and (with the exception of the reemergence of the 12″ line) G.I.Joe was dead until TRU picked up the brand with store exclusives in 97′, which eventually launched the full-scale release of the “Real American Hero” line. From here on out G.I.Joe finally starts to gain some momentum and the line continues for about 5 years under the Joe vs Cobra, Spy Troops, and Valor Vs. Venom banners. Then, after the announcement of the line Robot Rebellion, the line is put in hiatus for the 8″ Sigma Six line. After about 2 years, Sigma Six is canceled and the Joe line is, again, put on hiatus for the new 4′ 25th line. After a successful 2 year run, the line is, yet again, put on hiatus to make room for the Rise Of Cobra line. From here, Rise Of Cobra seems to start off hot (Hasbro is pleased enough to start work on the Pursuit Of Cobra line), but early September comes and the line comes to a near screeching halt. As waves 1 & 2 flood the shelves, other waves become near impossible to find (I just found wave 4 during the Christmas rush), and the line is reduced to $5 retail price ($3.00 off it’s initial release price). Now images are starting to be leaked featuring artwork not associated with a Pursuit of Cobra line, and Joe logo’s, again, not associated with the Pursuit of Cobra line. What’s more, is that we appear to be in a hiatus as the last wave of Rise Of Cobra figures came out in early December and the next wave (with the exception of store exclusives) appear to be scheduled for the fall (8-10 months of no new product). What, from Hasbro’s eight previous relaunches of the G.I. Joe franchise, gives you the confident voice that it’s not happening a ninth time? At this point in the brands 40+ year-old history, it’s practically old hat.
Also, I’m not too proud to admit I agree with Compulsive Collector on some levels. Being someone who collectors the JLU line, I do agree that Hasbro does a better job than Mattel to try hard to appease it’s fan base to some extent. The Cobra Island 7 packs, the upcoming Resolute 7 packs, and the DTC line are good evidence of that. However, I think Hasbro’s Star Wars team does a much better job of appeasing their fan base than Hasbro’s Joe team. One of the ways Hasbro could do this would be the G.I.Joe fan figure vote.
If a movie is successful, those who “starred” in it are noted. If the film is a flop, tabloids will call out the actors. Miller, Tatum, Wayans, and the rest are considered “stars” because G.I. JOE: The Rise of Cobra was a hit. You know what I mean Andrew. Want to trying and swing for the fences with another stupid home run? You knocked it out of the park with your question.
I’ve never, ever, heard that before. The term “Stars” is just another generic name for lead actors in a movie. Maybe it’s a regional thing.
And Derrick, again, no one is arguing that the movie wasn’t successful. It made $300 Million dollars worldwide. That’s pretty good. But that’s apples and oranges when talking about successful toy sales. Avatar has made over $300 Million domestically, and their toys aren’t selling. Star Trek made over $550 Million Worldwide and they’re giving their toys away. Don’t confuse a movie’s success with merchandising success.
…I should have taken a hint…don’t get into a conversation with ignorant people. Whatever you say Andrew, whatever you say…
I’ve pretty much countered every one of your points, and I’m ignorant?
I will say one thing about Andrew’s extended post regarding G.I. Joe’s popularity. What is often not mentioned, is that – circa 1969 – when parents complained about the Hot Wheels cartoon (a Speed Racer copycat), they stated to the government that the show was a 30-minute ad for the Mattel toy line. The FCC made a ruling that no character originating from a toy company could get a Saturday morning or syndicated cartoon. Look it up, this was mentioned in several books about G.I. Joe.
This severely hampered the popularity of the G.I. Joe Adventure Team. And at the time, no one thought about investing in a live action tv show or small budget feature film. Therefore, the Adventure Team could not compete against Mego’s World’s Greatest Super Heroes, Star Trek, and Planet of the Apes lines. By 1976, it was all over, as the synergy between the comic books, cartoons and tv shows, and toy lines were too much for The Adventure Team to compete against Batman, Spider-Man, and Superman.
That particular FCC rule was repealed around 1981. That’s why G.I. Joe and Masters of the Universe were ultimately allowed to have cartoon shows and gain more popularity. But that was a major reason why The Adventure Team was not as popular as it could have been. And if you notice, Channing Tatum’s portrayal of Duke is a composite of the classic Conrad Hauser and “the orginal G.I. Joe” Joseph Colton.
Andrew Hall, you’re talking about a file that was found on 4chan, of all places, as though it’s an official announcement. Talk about having a laugh. The first rule of the internet is take everything you see on 4chan with a truckload of salt.
On the matter of STAR WARS vs. G.I. JOE with Hasbro, I personally love the idea of a fans’ choice poll. They did it recently with Marvel Universe, too. Some of the winners in the STAR WARS lines have become dust traps at retail, though, so that could have something to do with it not happening. Then again, as popular as the Doc mail-away promotion was, it seems like it would be worth trying again.
Sorry, Compulsive Collector, restating everything and adding more insults still does not make your opinions fact.
>>Please consider paying attention to what you read before you respond to it.<>1) The failed movie lines I mentioned were all heavily clearanced, while the successful ones all saw price reductions during the year, and especially near the holidays. This is a fact, not an opinion.<>2) What I said about Target clearly describes how they manage inventory. <>3) Larger items absolutely do go on clearance sooner than smaller ones, precisely because they require more dedicated retail real estate.<>4) Mattel <>“When I say sales are crappy here, that is FACT.”
Actually, that’s merely your own interpretation of what you see. Based on what I see in your post, I’m not convinced that you’re qualified to process your own experiences logically and objectively to reach a sound conclusion.<>Did you expect Pursuit Of Cobra to start early in 2010? New lines don’t launch immediately after the holidays, period. January and February are the slowest months of the year for new toys at retail in general. This is not an opinion, either.<<
Well, Hasbro said they were launching in January and February. Go up the page and click on Justin's superpage for PoC. There you will find pics from the last show and the figures have January 2010 and February 2010 clearly written on their stands. So they did plan on releasing them in January and February and that has now changed. That is fact, pictured there for all to see.
So anyway, I'll take the friendly advice I've gotten from numerous other posters and visitors here and stop wasting my time with you. I challeneged your "opinions" and you came back with nothing. You just kept saying that's how it is. No proof, nothing, nada, zilch.
Guess Alpine had you dead to rights right out of the gate. 😉
Well, that sucks.
I had actually written responses to everything I copied from your post CC, but I guess the internet gremlins got it when it was posted.
Ah well, like I said, I’m not going to waste my time on this anymore, since this is just turning into a I’m right, you’re wrong post-a-thon.
Some people still believe the world is flat no matter what you tell them. Just the way things are I guess.
“Well, Hasbro said they were launching in January and February. Go up the page and click on Justin’s superpage for PoC. There you will find pics from the last show and the figures have January 2010 and February 2010 clearly written on their stands. So they did plan on releasing them in January and February and that has now changed. That is fact, pictured there for all to see.”
Actually, that’s just you not paying attention again. Look at the packaged samples and the slides from the presentation. All of those figures that were scheduled to arrive early this year are shown with a logo that says The Rise Of Cobra. That is a fact, pictured there for all to see. That they were intended to be part of the POC line seems to have been an assumption on the part of the individual who arranged those photos. If you look at the actual images, rather than simply the name of the page on which they are displayed, you can see your error for yourself. The figures scheduled to arrive in early 2010 are already showing up on eBay, and they’re part of The Rise Of Cobra line, so everything seems to be moving along like it should be.
No, there’s nothing that said The Pursuit Of Cobra would launch in early 2010. This is nothing more than an assumption on your part, but if calling it a “fact” makes you feel warm and fuzzy, you’re entitled to that.
“So anyway, I’ll take the friendly advice I’ve gotten from numerous other posters and visitors here and stop wasting my time with you. I challeneged your “opinions” and you came back with nothing. You just kept saying that’s how it is. No proof, nothing, nada, zilch.”
Challenged? You’ve done nothing of the kind, sir. All you did was demonstrate that you don’t know what you’re talking about and that you’re unwilling to listen to and learn from those who do. And yes, my own friendly advice to you would be to stop wasting your time with me, as you’re clearly in over your head here.
“Ah well, like I said, I’m not going to waste my time on this anymore…”
Except to totem-post a second message directed at me. Way to exhibit restraint there.
“Some people still believe the world is flat no matter what you tell them.”
As evidenced by your insistence that The Pursuit Of Cobra was officially scheduled to begin in early 2010, when nothing of the kind has ever been stated by Hasbro. You embarrass yourself by peddling erroneous assumptions as facts.