With the family out for a Girl Scout field trip, I had a chance to get jumping right on Episode Nine of G.I. Joe: Renegades tonight, and with Zartan being the focus of the show, I was happy to be able to do that.
While a considerable departure from what we know, we get a pretty fresh, interesting, and new take on the Master of Disguise. You can check out my review either in the Episode Guide or directly right here!
let me save you all the trouble….
“788, your never satisfied.”
“788, all you do is nitpick.”
“788, you never have anything good to say–even when they totally bastardize a major character and take away everything about him from past iterations, save for his motorcycle and gang.”
“788, you are a _______ety, ______ ______.”
hope i save you guys some time tonight.
ciao.
You do know he hasn’t been fully developed as a character yet, right?
no, i dont know that. you dont know that. none of us know that.
there’s no guarantee that his character will ever be revisited.
At the end we see that he becomes a valuable asset to Cobra Industries and wears an experimental chameleon tech suit that enables him to mimic the voice, appearance, and mannerism of anyone he comes in contact with…. yeah, that’s not Zartan at all and we’re neevr going to see him again…
I’m so glad his looked changed for this version. Someone with a red towel on there head, black paint on there eyes and wearing a costume that looks as if he should be in the He-Man Universe… talk about an improvement.
Of course we know that, and of course his character will be revisited. We know that because we know, “he stumbles upon and becomes the only person who can wear an experimental Cobra “chameleon tech” suit,” and that didn’t happen in this episode. This was just an introduction.
Can someone explain to me what the big draw is for all you guys in totally changing a well known and loved character?
If they don’t like him the way he is, why not do a new character? Slight changes I can see, but totally re-doing a guy just because you can?
I’m being very serious and in no way trying to be confrontational. I honestly do not understand this. I hated it with RoC, I hated it in the IDW comics and I hate it here and now. Apparently though, a large number of you seem to get bored with characters as they are and want to keep using their names but totally re-do them. It seems very, very strange to me.
I don’t think it’s that we WANT a loved character to be changed…it’s that we accept that he WILL be changed, and it becomes a matter of how good the new iteration is.
Let’s face it…when they branch off into different formats, things are going to change, this is accepted fact. Backstories will change, personalities might change, it’s just what happens.
The larger question becomes, is it change for changes sake, or does it actually make some sense? If they just retold the same story over and over again, wouldn’t it lose some luster the 4th or 5th time around?
In this case, they obviously changed Zartan quite a bit, but the larger question, again, is, how did they change him? To me, the changes make sense. Not only that, but we’re just barely scratching the surface. As Compulsive Collector said already, Zartan’s character bio already states he will eventually acquire a Cobra “Chameleon Suit” which allows him to mimic other people. Doesn’t that sound pretty close to his established history?
The Renegades folks are just putting some new spins on the origins, just to keep things interesting. I think they’re doing a decent job, and it seems clear to me that in the end, the character will remain pretty consistent with our idea. I think the same will hold true of guys like Destro and Scrap Iron as well, who start off looking pretty different, but are all leading to a familiar place.
Half the fun is watching them get there.
” no, i dont know that. you dont know that. none of us know that.
there’s no guarantee that his character will ever be revisited.”
That’s not true. Check out the character bios on my Renegades SuperSite:
https://generalsjoesreborn.com/renegades/characters/cobra-industries/zartan/
It gives a lot more depth to the character and indicates that he will become something we recognize.
This *is* a new character. He exists in a different continuity, so it’s not the same character, just like Batman on The Brave and the Bold isn’t the same Batman from the DCAU. The DCAU Batman wasn’t the Batman from the comics, either, nor is Chris Nolan’s Batman the one from any of those other universes. The Hamaverse Zartan hasn’t been “changed,” because he’s still who he always was. This is a completely different interpretation of a fictional character. It doesn’t replace what was before. That some of us enjoy the series and like the way the characters are handled in no way means we’re “bored” with previous versions. I’m honestly not sure how you arrived at that conclusion.
As I’ve said elsewhere, Zartan is my favorite G.I. JOE character, and this wasn’t the origin story I’d have told. That’s okay, though, because the creative team delivered a quality story with actual characterization. Zartan actually had a personality (and a disorder to go with it), unlike the weak attempt in Resolute. As a comics and animation fan, I’ve been reading and watching various writers produce new versions of existing characters for most of my life. This one delivered, but that doesn’t mean it replaces what is the definitive Zartan in my mind.
Ok, first of all, I can’t watch the Renegades cartoons, as much as I really want to, so I can see what everyone is talking about I can’t. Hubworld won’t let me stream them or download them or anything, maybe because I live in Canada (though no message comes up as usually does when that’s the case), so nothing I’m saying is directed at what happened in this show. It was a general question regarding this practise.
I see where you guys are coming from though and have to admit I’ve benefitted from this practise as I love Nolan’s Batman and have never enjoyed Batman before that, especially the 14-years and younger aimed original Batman movies. However, I know so many Batman fans that despise the new movies and cherish the old films and I feel for them.
I guess it is a general complaint of mine about comics and such in general. Every writer comes in wanting to do a new take on the origins and characterizations of the property, something I’ve never liked. My favorite comics and the only ones I keep are either limited series where the writer and artist stay the same throughout or long stretches of writer/artist teams I like. I get far more out of long term story telling and deep characterization through experiences and growth, rather than just re-doing things over and over and over again. That’s what’s boring to me. I can’t stand origin stories being told again and again.
The hard truth seems to be that most writers just get sick of what they are writing about and end up not knowing where to go with their titles. Hama going back over the CC/Baroness/Snake Eyes/Storm Shadow again and again is a good example of that. Eventually it became so muddled and ludicrous it lost any value it originally had.
@ Justin. I don’t think your original statement is quite honest Justin. Maybe you don’t even realize it yourself, but you often utter the statement along the lines of I can’t wait to see how they will do (insert character name here) whether that’s referring to IDW in general, Origins and Cobra specifically and/or Renegades. So you do indeed look forward it. So some part of you has to be saying “ok, I liekd the way it was, but it’s time for something new”. That’s what it seems and sounds like reading your previews/reviews. If I’m wrong, please feel free to correct me.
By the way, if there is anyone who can help me view these episodes someway, somehow that would be great. I’d really like to know what all the fuss is about.
I’m looking forward to seeing what they do with all of the characters they have yet to introduce, as well, but that doesn’t mean I feel like it’s time for something new. I just know that what’s coming is new, and I look forward to more of this story. I’d probably be happier if the series was more rooted in the original Marvel continuity, but I still like and enjoy Renegades. It doesn’t have to be catered to my specific preferences for me to have fun with it. As a big fan of DC Comics, and especially Batman, the DCAU is one of my favorite television experiences ever. It differs from the comics, but it lasted long enough for a huge, arc-based story to unfold and real character development to occur organically. I love Nolan’s films, but I still prefer the Timmverse (for the record, I can’t stand the Burtonman stuff). If Renegades ends after one or two seasons, and some new continuity replaces it, I’ll find that irritating. As long as they stick to their plan of doing five or so seasons of this series, though, there’s a great opportunity for this show to establish something like that of its own, although I doubt it will ever see the longevity of the DCAU.
And as much as I like the new Avengers cartoon, I was pretty invested in Wolverine and the X-Men. I hate that it was dropped, especially when it would have been so easy to have the two run concurrently. The Steve Blum Wolverine cameo in the Captain America origin was nice, but I’m still bummed that we’ll never see where the other series was heading.
First of all, Hawkwinter, if you want to watch the series, try this:
http://www.youtube.com/user/GIJoeRenegades?blend=2&ob=1
And yes, part of me does look forward to “something new”. I’ve never hidden that fact. Let’s face it, over the past 30 years there has been so many myriad continuities and many things that conflict each other, that it’s really tough to be totally married and devoted to an existing mythology.
Granted, in my dio-stories I’m still faithfully devoted to the Hamaverse, and always will be for my own personal universe, but to me, it’s all about the characters and the spirit of G.I. Joe. As long as that stuff is intact, my mind is open to seeing what new and interesting things can be done. As long as I’m entertained, I don’t feel like anything done these days has one iota of impact on my enjoyment of what’s already come.
Let’s face it, what other stories are there to tell about the original Real American Hero mythology? Hama himself has been walking a very careful line with the new IDW series and so far hasn’t done anything especially revolutionary, just more of the same. Sometimes I really feel like seeing a reinvention.
I was a fully vested and devoted Marvel fan for a very long time, yet I enjoyed the hell out of the Ultimate Universe. Why? Because it was entertaining. It did not effect my memories of the “real” Marvel Universe one single bit.
then it is corrected i stand. if the character bio says there is more in store for meester ZarTahn’ (thanks chris eccleston) then i am wrong.
im sure it comes to no shock to anyone here that i cant muster the interest to read said bio, but i believe it says that. so now i know……
and knowing…..ah hell, what’d’ya know? Dennis Quaid was right!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again here…GI Joe as a brand undergoes very Asian-style handling. That is, successful characters and universes become an archetype, and subsequent tellings refer to the archetype for the sake of hearer respectability. (See China’s Journey to the West or Wong Fei-hung folk tales, or any of Japan’s legends, and even more recently, the entirety of the Gundam franchise) When you say Zartan, for instance, fans of the Zartan archetype bring lots of baggage to the telling: Seasoning, if you will. When a revised telling is laid out, the ones who heard the telling before bring their seasoning with them, and sprinkle it over the new. If the telling is well done, the new flavors are fresh for the neophyte and enhanced for the veteran, without taking away from the original, as CC mentioned above.
I think when you understand that Hasbro is treating the characters in GI Joe as archetypes, it’s easier to understand why there are so many different but similar continuities. Frankly, I think the problem began when they decided to put file-cards on the figures, which seemed to lock-in people’s perceptions of the characters. Since Hama wrote them, they lined up with the comic. However, what many fans selectively forget is that the Sunbow cartoon ran pretty concurrently with the comic for a time, and was very, very different. Devil’s Due tried to marry the two (Hamaverse and Sunbowverse) and even that is considered a separate telling now, and hated by many (not me though. I still love the DDP books)
So, Zartan was, from the word “go”, two separate characters with the same name and same look. And I’d say, depending on how many figures they made, half of those where different characters in the hands of the children who played with them. The only thing consistent about the characters in GI Joe is their inconsistency with different versions and perceptions…exactly what makes a successful toy. It’s exactly what the consumer wants it to be, limited not by file cards or comics or cartoons, but by the imaginations of the kid holding it, which should never be limited by file cards, comics or cartoons, but rather inspired by them.
1980’s Zartan teaming up with Skeletor… hehehehe! That would actually work since 80’s Zartan looks the part and I’m not sayng that as if that’s a good thing
I like what Nas is saying, on towards the bottom especially.
I’m just really happy that G.I. Joe is alive in animated, comic book and toy form. How sweet is that?
@ Pat
How very true. Whether some of us like/dislike this or that in the cartoon/comics/movie and/or toys, how freakin’ great is it that we have all these things to discuss and argue about?
The ability to pick and choose what we like, what we don’t, what becomes part of our Joe world and what doesn’t. It really is a great time for this hobby.
@ Justin – Thanks for the link, that works. Haven’t gotten far yet as my server went down last night but it’s good to be in the loop 😉
If they are going to make changes to iconic characters then they should improve upon them or at least keep what made them so memorable. These Dreadknocks were all forgetable, the take on Buzzer was especially sad. Just put the classic image of Buzzer or Zartan next to these new versions and tell me where the improvement is.
This is the first Renegades episode I did not like.
A supervillin looking Zartan in show that’s going for a more realistic look it outfits???? Hell no! That outfit of his should have changed years ago. The writers of Renegades did the smart thing. If none of you people had a problem with the crappy outfits in ROC… the you shouldn’t have a problem with this at all… hypocrites
Realistic from a show that started with giant mutating monsters? Also, I don’t think anyone would defend ROC.
I really like the shows writing, the animation, the sound and even the voices. I wish they would have thought just a little more about the over all look and design of the characters, Sunbow clearly has them beat in that area. That being said my family is enjoying the show overall.