This is something I’ve been thinking about for a little while…with rumors persisting that a lot of the o-ring product is probably too damaged to use, I can see the Club quickly running out of options for parts for the classic style figures. As such, they’ll need to (by necessity) move on to the Anniversary construction. No idea what the time frame on this might be (if it’s even the case) but I would imagine soon enough, we’ll see the migration over to the new style construction for GIJCC related product.
So, now the question is… if the G.I. Joe Collectors’ Club wanted to get some mileage out of the 25th Anniversary tooling, would you have any issues with them producing vintage homage figures like Dial Tone, Low Light, or Airtight as convention exclusives or membership incentive figures?
Considering the fact that Hasbro seems adamant that they’re not interested in fully revisiting the 25th Anniversary, so the Club may be our only chance of getting the critical holes filled in the cast for 25th Anniversary figures. Yet, I still remember the furor that the Transformers Collectors’ Club endured when they produced the remaining Seekers as part of their Botcon exclusives a few years ago.
So, the question remains… would you be willing to spend more money on convention or membership incentive figures to get the remaining figures in the 1986 – 1994 line up? Would that be better than not getting them at all? Or would that just be a slap in the face?
From my own perspective, I typically purchase the convention and membership incentive figures anyway, so I’d welcome getting these figures any chance we get. It’s obvious Hasbro isn’t going to go out of their way to do it themselves, so isn’t a more expensive option better than nothing?
Thoughts?
Hell yeah! I loved the 25th anniversary construction since it began, so obviously i would really, really love the exclusives move from the vintage o-ring to the 25th style any day!
I want a new-tooled Jinx and Budo so my answer is YES!
Put me in yes column as well.
I’m all for the new-construction, but I like the idea of exclusive figures to be new. That is, bringing something new to the table, even like the Adventure Team outing. Part of the problem I forsee is the available parts for the club to work with being less than stellar, articulation wise, if they’re pulling from the 25th line. I’d rather they get creative with good parts, even if that means they have to come up with a new frankenjoe that we’ve never seen before, but who “fits” or fills a hole in the current lineup.
I dunno. I’d pay for a killer Low-Light done in 25th style, as long as I could pose him in a sniper position. Do you know what I mean? Ultimately, I’m a “yes”, but with reservations. However, I’d much prefer to see 25th construction than o-ring, simply because that’s where my collection is right now, and I think the o-ring stuff looks terribly antiquated. (See my comments on the Red Shadows con-exclusive. Great idea, but I can’t get behind the execution. Still, more for the “purists” I guess. 😉 )
I would probably pick and choose. I bought some of the convention exclusives from the club last year because they were 25th style construction and were new figures that weren’t getting made anywhere else (Shimik, Redmack, Topson). I’ve preordered only one of the AT sets, but if they were to do sets that included Low-Light, Airtight, a wider variety of Vipers, etc…I’d have to see the price point, but more than likely, yes.
I don’t think I would, mainly because my collection is still mainly RAH. I have some 25th stuff, ROC stuff, and other things sprinkled in between, but RAH is where my heart lies.
However, I do think it is an interesting idea. Heck, I think that an idea like this could work similar to how Mattycollector is doing the new He-Man stuff
As a new father, I have recently gotten nostalgic about sharing my wonderful childhood experiences with my children and GI Joe is a big part of that.Within the past year I have spent several hundred dollars in collecting via Ebay & other sites and I have very much enjoyed the 25th series–any additions to that series would be met with my financial support without a doubt.
I would definitely support the Club filling in the holes for 25th figures!
That would be a great idea!
I agree Nas. ARAH stuff looks antiquated. My nephews are into the new ME/RoC product. So, that’s where my collection is going too.
Honestly, if I could fills the holes in my 1985-1994 collection with ME/RoC style product, I’d probably get rid of the ARAH stuff on Ebay.
So, yes, GIJCC…give me an old-style Leatherneck, Dialtone, Lowlight, Footloose, etc…I’d buy ’em.
Sure. I’d like to get those charecters in 25th form. But I’d also like to see some RAH offerings too. I’m is a weird boat here becuse I’m a completest for both RAH and 25th/ROC styles.
A bitchen 25th Dial Tone and Cross Country would be great, but all new charcters in any style would be super too. But it doesn’t really matter, I’ll buy atleast one of each regardless becuse I’m a tool like that.
Yes, but not @ the Club’s inflated price points, (sorry, but I can’t swallow $15.00 or more for a figure, I love the idea though, if they could do it in a way that can meet us in the middle I’d be all for it.
I don’t think it’s fair to call the Club’s price points “inflated.” The club producing figures for under $10 in price is not ever going to happen, and even getting near $10 would be pretty tough.
I agree with tkprime; I don’t think he’s implying that the Club is trying to gouge anyone with their prices, but the reality is they won’t be able to produce them cheaply. For some people, cost is not an issue, they just want the figures produced. But for me, I cannot justify or enjoy plunking over $10 for a single figure. That doesn’t mean it would be a bad move for the Club; I think Hasbro pulled the plug on the 25th line way too early, so I imagine there will be a good market for the product.
I’d go for that as Membership incentives or purchace at the website. I wouldn’t go as far as reproducing everything all the way up to the end of the run in 1994, becasue with Battle Corps some of the earlier characters were just getting really silly uptades. But maybe up to just before the Battle Corps started. I’d pay money for that and join the Club.
First of all you mention Dial Tone and Lowlight. I guess that means the “smirk” you got at Toyfair means they are in fact not coming and the “smirk” probbly meant, “yeah, we know what the fans want and don’t care. Losers!”
So, so much for JoeCon. Looks like all it’s going to be about is stuff we’ve already seen since last year, but now we know the adventure team set won’t be there. So POC stuff we’ve already seen, the Resolute 7-packs we’ve already seen, probably the Sarge, and probably some kind of teaser for the cartoon. That and a tour of Hasbro and the reps telling everyone the same BS line that they love the fans and everything G I JOE is super duper grand!
But to answer your question Justin, I say no. For starters, I think it should be the O-Ring stuff. Yes, much of the molds are damaged, but there is still mileage in it. Don’t care for it myself, but there are those that do. And if this is the only way they can get it, more power to them.
Second, it would be a slap in the face. Despite Hasbro’s insistence and the apologists with their never ending know-it-all answers and excuses, Hasbro needs the collectors for the Joe stuff more than they know or care to admit. So to say, well, we love you guys, you mean so much for us and we’re trying to think of ways to make you happy, but we won’t or can’t do two things at once, we won’t integrate classics into the new stuff, and for whatever reason we can’t put it online in exclusive battlepacks, IS a slap in the face to say here’s Lowlight, he’s all we’re doing this year, he’s $500 dollars oh and there’s only 200 of them so get him while you can.
I don’t see people asking for the 90’s stuff either. I see people asking for the remainder of the 83-86 stuff that’s missing. I see people saying give us what you’ve ALREADY tooled and sell them as troop builers like Alley Viper or BATS. I see people saying repaint what you’ve ALREADY tooled and give us Tiger Force or Slaughter’s Marauders. I see people saying just give us the last of the good ones (Cover Girl, Airtight, Footloose, Lowlight, Dial Tone, Lifeline, Leatherneck, Sci-Fi, Zarana, Zandar, Dreadnoks or the remaining Vipers like Techno-Viper) and give them to us online so we don’t confuse all those millions of kids buying up your hit smash ROC and POC lines.
So no. Give them to us in 7-packs. Sell them online if you must. And just give us 83-86 with one or two exceptions. Not the entire lineup. Then the classic fans will be happy as pigs in mud and Hasbro will have some more dough to put into POC or whatever their calling their new Duke’s and Snake Eyes and Snow Jobs. And then us classics gents couldn’t care less how bad the line stinks and we’ll see if the ROC fans can keep it alive and if Hasbro can (FINALLY) convince some kids to like this stuff.
Thanks for the tip Justin. I don’t have to wait until JoeCon to be disappointed again. I know now, I’m done because of Hasbro’s stupidity and their lies when they tell us they care and try to find ways to make us happy. Long live ROC!!
I don’t even know how to answer that.
Brillian rant, dear sir. Brilliant.
“But it doesn’t really matter, I’ll buy atleast one of each regardless becuse I’m a tool like that.”–Dream
And you probably think you help out the brand when you do that along with the apologists who are more concerned with handing out flattery than anything else.
In the end, this is a major reason why brand is in such bad shape as it is:
1. Hasbro’s persistent denial to who keeps the brand alive and care for it.
2. Those who usually represent the “fan” or “collector” portion at Cons or who send in the Q&A’s typically just offer flattery and praise and of the mindset, “well, whatever you wan’t to do we’re with you, it’s all cool, we’re easy to please, so thanks!”
When in fact, they DON’T represent the fans or collectrs by and far. MOST fans and collectors got into this with the classics. MOST fans liked Resolute and preferred it over anything else. MOST fans stopped buying when those lines stopped and ROC took over. That’s why the toys are warming the pegs and sit even on clearance.
“I don’t even know how to answer that.
Brillian rant, dear sir. Brilliant.”–Justin
I’m sure Hasbro thanks you for that line of defense Justin.
I’ll start calling you guys the shore patrol.
Shore patrol I get that Hasbro says they appreciate us. I get that you have met some of the guys, they’re cool and down to earth, they have families and their all big fans like us. But what you say and what they say fall on deaf ears.
It doesn’t feel like they appreciate us because they don’t make product we ask for. Now, shore patrol defense will be “what about Resolute 7-packs?”
My answer to that is also my point in explaining why collectors DON’T feel like Hasbro appreciates it’s collectors or cares.
“Never mind about making Joes we want and don’t have like Dial Tone, Lowlight and Zarana. What about the easy stuff that collectors want that Hasbro don’t seem too inclined to care about doing?”
Example: How about some troop builders? How about boxing up some Vipers, or EELs, or Alley Vipers and BATS? How about repainting what they already have and really “tossing out a bone” and giving us Tiger Force or Slaughter’s Marauders?
Until we see AT LEAST that effort, their comments, and your apologies for them fall on deaf ears.
But just for giggles why don’t you explain to us why Hasbro can’t or won’t give us these things that are simple, already tooled and easy money for them?
Or is Hasbro simply not capable of doing a line for the kids and doing a line for the fans at the same time?
And you apologists try to rip MATTEL who ARE capable of doing this and ARE doing it?
Wow.
lol. How all this gets so political is beyond me.
So I’ll be brutally honest. I want the 25th line complete. To me that means all figures (done right!) up until and through 1986 and I wouldn’t mind several after that and if they made them, would probably buy everything up until 1992 and even 25th versions of lots of the GvC, Spy Troop and some VvV stuff. That being said, I really don’t care anymore about what Hasbro does or doesn’t do. If I like it I’ll buy it, if I don’t I won’t. And I WILL finish the originals in 25th mold even if I have to hire one of these kick-ass customizers you feature on this site and pay them $200 a figure to get what I want, whatever.
Sooooo, all that being said, if the Club (or anyone) offers these and they are done right, I will buy them, price is irrelevant to me. So is packaging.
“But just for giggles why don’t you explain to us why Hasbro can’t or won’t give us these things that are simple, already tooled and easy money for them?”
Because they hate you.
“Because they hate you.”
And while you think you are being cute with that answer or you think I’m breathless and feel “put in my place” because I never imagined you’d try an answer like that, the fact is still crystal clear for all to see.
There is no answer that you have. There is no logical answer. And you try to cover it by being cute because you know it’s a pretty darn good question.
Otherwise you would have went into an apologist response, about lack of interest, money and tooling or something else. But you don’t have that this time do you Justin?
And neither does Hasbro. And the obvious assumption is the one that the collectors have surmised: Money talks and BS walks.
It all sounds nice and clean with a strawberry on top when Hasbro reps tell us they like the classics like us and they have families to feed and they appreciate us and let’s hold hands under the rainbow and all, but actions speak louder than words and they simply DON’T care, or they are simply too stupid to know what to do with what they have, too stupid to know who buys the line, and too stupid to know what to do with it all.
Haven’t there been some former employees who’ve come forward to admit that? I think so.
When you and Hasbro can give us a good answer or at least some sort of effort to put their money where their mouths are, let us know shore patrol!
No way. It’s 2010. The 25th Anniversary line was cool as a nod to the past but it’s beyond time to move on now.
I’d much rather Hasbro release updated (and better) versions of familiar characters into their regular retail assortments (like the upcoming Recondo and Snow Job) than have the Club charge an arm and a leg for a figure that looks just like a figure that was already made years ago only now it isn’t held together with a rubber band. That’s sacrificing innovation for nostalgia.
The Club should concentrate on doing, not necessarily new characters but characters that are fringe and probably wouldn’t see retail release otherwise like Sparks, Lt. Clay Moore and Big Lob. And figures with intricate and unique paint apps like the cold weather Joes and the urban camo Steel Brigade figures they’ve done in conventions past.
There were hundreds of different figures released during the 25 years of ARAH. It’ll be 2016 and guys are going to be asking when the 25th Mirage or 25th Cyber-Viper is going to be made. Where does the line get drawn? We’re never going to make it to the 35th anniversary at this rate.
Why would the club care to do that Ben when Hasbro is already doing that themselves? And all of those new characters that don’t look like they are in the past like Para Viper, Helix and Nigh Adder are all readily and abundantely available pretty much anywhere in the United States. No mad rush to find them.
Really, I just now want a figure of Billy and a figure of Kwinn in jungle fatigues.
If Hasbro isn’t going to run with it down the line then I hope the Club does as well. Although I’d much rather see the Club tackle the figures we’re never going to get from Hasbro such as a khaki Kwinn and Billy figures vs figures we’d see at retail for $5.
When it ended the 25th line was in the same position currently held by ROC – clearanced, canceled, and not wanted by major retailers due to the poor sales and pegwarmers from some pretty bad case repack selections and poor vehicle sales. Retailer revolt over a line that was warming pegs a mere year ago (some 5 packs, 3-packs and vehicle selections still are warming Toys R Us aisles) may have more to do with Hasbro not jumping on the bringing back classics bandwagon at this time.
If Hasbro were to pick up the ball and run with the classics again I’d wager it won’t be until 2012 when the line hits its 30th Anniversary. Although I wouldn’t mind seeing them take the same appraoch they’re doing with the fantastic Iron Man 3 3/4″ line and having new and classics under the same branding with the only distinction on the packaging being a small line of wording. That way they could sell the line to retailers as being new while still satisfying the small collector base like myself that isn’t interested in the toyline past 1989. 😉
“There were hundreds of different figures released during the 25 years of ARAH. It’ll be 2016 and guys are going to be asking when the 25th Mirage or 25th Cyber-Viper is going to be made. Where does the line get drawn? We’re never going to make it to the 35th anniversary at this rate.”–Ben
Except no one is asking for that. In the mad rush to get things more Sigma 6 or ROC like, the apologists constantly bring up “who wants new sculpts or ninja force or eco warriors? where does it end?”
I don’t see anyone asking for the 90’s stuff. I don’t see anyone asking for eco warriors, space marines or ninja force.
I see people asking for the same thing. Up until the ’86 year.
THAT’S where it ends. And that can be obtained by some simple exclusive packs like the Cobra Island sets. I even see people saying they’ll take them online just so it doesn’t insult the ROC guys or affect their sales or even confuse those kids who are supposedly out there buying up this stuff.
I also see people saying just wait until 2012 for the 30th anniversary. Well guys, it doesn’t have to be called 25th or 30th it can be called classics or whatever Hasbro needs to call it. And I guess it seemed to slip many minds that the sequel toys will be at retail in 2012. So I doubt Hasbro plans to sell any more classics that year.
Alpine, the minute you stop being respectful to me, I stop being respectful back. I’m happy to have a logical, respectful discussion with anyone, that’s why this site is here. But you start accusing me of just “trying to be cool”, calling me “Einstein” and being a general jackass, well, guess what? I’ll be a jackass right back. I’m just less wordy about it.
-And that can be obtained by some simple exclusive packs like the Cobra Island sets.-
You mean those same 7 packs that are currently being clearanced at ROSS stores because they didn’t sell as expected online?
Watch out, Todd, you’ll be an apologist!
“When it ended the 25th line was in the same position currently held by ROC – clearanced, canceled, and not wanted by major retailers due to the poor sales and pegwarmers from some pretty bad case repack selections and poor vehicle sales. Retailer revolt over a line that was warming pegs a mere year ago (some 5 packs, 3-packs and vehicle selections still are warming Toys R Us aisles) may have more to do with Hasbro not jumping on the bringing back classics bandwagon at this time.”–M6DTodd
When the 25th stuff stopped, it wasn’t canceled. It was stopped for ROC. There was down time to have Hasbro gear up correctly for the new big line. And I don’t recall seeing anything on “clearance.”
I see them now 1 year later on clearance at TJ Maxx and Marshalls. I didn’t see anything go down to 5 or 3 dollars before ROC hit retail.
Hasbro’s response to to impatient fans want more–NOW!–was wave 9 with Hawk and Bazooka and Barbecue. And no other waves. This is what we saw sitting on the pegs in bulk because the collectors had their share of that wave and wanted no more.
I doubt we’ll see anything for 2012 as well as far as classics go because that will be a year with toys for the sequel. And we know Hasbro can’t or won’t do anything else while they are doing movie toys or they would have in 2009.
I assume you don’t have a Target around you then. They clearanced the HELL out of the 25th stuff. Single packs, vehicle packs, exclusives, you name it.
At Wal-Marts they clearanced single carded figures and vehicles out.
This I know, because I profited from. But, continue. I’m enjoying this. It amuses me. What else ya got?
“That way they could sell the line to retailers as being new while still satisfying the small collector base like myself that isn’t interested in the toyline past 1989.”
Who actually wants anything post-1989 Todd? Wink Wink.
“When the 25th stuff stopped, it wasn’t canceled. It was stopped for ROC.”
And thus ends your credibility. This is NOT true. It simply isn’t. The 25th Anniversary line was CANCELLED. It was planned to be at retail running right up to the Rise of Cobra, why else would there have been packaged samples of Wave 14, and the Wave 5 vehicles? Truth is, retailers cancelled their orders due to lackluster sales.
This is my major issue. As much as you accuse me of being an apologist, you have your own tainted views based on untrue bias. Hasbro would not have invested marketing, tooling, and packaging for two entire waves of single packs and several waves of vehicle packs, only to suddenly halt the line in favor for the movie stuff. They never got released because NO ONE ORDERED THE FINISHED PRODUCT.
In other words: The line was cancelled due to lackluster sales and lack of retailer support. I know you’d like to believe it’s not true, but sorry, them’s the breaks.
Damn…guess I’m just as wordy. 🙁
“You mean those same 7 packs that are currently being clearanced at ROSS stores because they didn’t sell as expected online?”–M6DTodd
Why yes! Those same EXACT sets that are on Clearance 1 YEAR LATER!!
Sure beats the new stuff that hit clearance in October only 3 months after it hit RETAIL.
Watch out, Todd, you’ll be an apologist!
Todd is an apologist Justin. He’s part of the good ole’ boy gang like you are. Do I need to give names? It’s pretty much the Sigma 6 bunch from the old JB days.
“I assume you don’t have a Target around you then. They clearanced the HELL out of the 25th stuff. Single packs, vehicle packs, exclusives, you name it.
At Wal-Marts they clearanced single carded figures and vehicles out.
This I know, because I profited from. But, continue. I’m enjoying this. It amuses me. What else ya got?”
The JAY says this? Wow! The same guy who goes on and one about ROC and Sigma 6 mechs? I never would have guessed.
I have 4 Targets near me Jay. I’m sorry THE Jay. I saw some Wild Bill TF Jets on clearance, but never saw the figures there. I certainly didn’t see anything major like I did with the ROC stuff.
What else do I have? Nothing. Just my condolensces for Minouche. I’m rather fond of my pets too and know that’s probably hard on you.
Oye. I take offense to that.
I am able to look past the 80’s and love Joe, and I am SO not a ‘Sigma 6 bunch’. I’ll have you take that back, but, you know, why throw in facts. It makes things jumbled.
I’m pretty sure m6d isn’t a Sigma lover either.
Although, Justin is guilty as charged lol
Um…for what it’s worth, make sure you’re rambling about me, and not the other JAY that posts here.
“Todd is an apologist Justin. He’s part of the good ole’ boy gang like you are. Do I need to give names? It’s pretty much the Sigma 6 bunch from the old JB days.” -Alpine
This might be true if I ever owned a Sigma 6 figure.
See? Told ya.
“And thus ends your credibility. This is NOT true. It simply isn’t. The 25th Anniversary line was CANCELLED. It was planned to be at retail running right up to the Rise of Cobra, why else would there have been packaged samples of Wave 14, and the Wave 5 vehicles? Truth is, retailers cancelled their orders due to lackluster sales.
This is my major issue. As much as you accuse me of being an apologist, you have your own tainted views based on untrue bias. Hasbro would not have invested marketing, tooling, and packaging for two entire waves of single packs and several waves of vehicle packs, only to suddenly halt the line in favor for the movie stuff. They never got released because NO ONE ORDERED THE FINISHED PRODUCT.
In other words: The line was cancelled due to lackluster sales and lack of retailer support. I know you’d like to believe it’s not true, but sorry, them’s the breaks.”
Hey Shore Patrol, thanks for remaining silent on my other questions to you with the obvious answers buy finally taking the time to say something when you think you’ve nailed me in the corner!
If you need any other reason to show you you’re an apologist, here ya go!
Now let me break down your comments and show where you miss the target. Oh, I admit, I hear the admins at JB, Hisstank and TD all saying the same thing you say. It’s all there from the apologists. But that doesn’t mean it’s true.
Hasbro stated they wanted more time for the shelves to be ready for the big launch of ROC. As for wave 14 and wave 5 vehicles? Wave 5 DID make it to online retailers. Whereas we know wave 3 of ROC IS actually canceled, words Hasbro NEVER used with the 25th stuff, and those wave 3 vehicles AREN’T sold by online retailers. I doubt something is canceled if they still sell, online, but still selling.
I seem to recall also that no one was too bummed out by wave 14 going AWOL because the hype was all ROC. I believe the wave 14 SS and Destro and Baroness are all coming in the Resolute 7-packs.
So to say “they never got released really, really makes me wonder how your loyalty to Hasbro has blinded you?
Nothing was canceled Shore Patrol. Nothing has given the stain on Hasbro like ROC. Not the 25th’s.
“Them’s the breaks!”
Now, go answer my other questions. Unless you’re too worried Hasbro is watching and those new Lava Viper’s won’t make it to you next week in the mail.
This might be true if I ever owned a Sigma 6 figure.
Except I said the old JB days which included VvV, Joe vs Cobra. And that means Todd that those from those days are where the apologists came from.
“Now let me break down your comments and show where you miss the target. Oh, I admit, I hear the admins at JB, Hisstank and TD all saying the same thing you say. It’s all there from the apologists. But that doesn’t mean it’s true.”
“Everyone else in the world is wrong, and I’m right, because I know the big H hates me so, and doesn’t want me to be happy.”
What I don’t understand is why you bother. This hobby has left hobby status with you and become a burden, so much so that you think a conspiracy is afoot. Isn’t it a hinderance at this point?
“Oh, I admit, I hear the admins at JB, Hisstank and TD all saying the same thing you say. It’s all there from the apologists. But that doesn’t mean it’s true.”
So let me get this straight… the admins of all of the major fansites, who all have the most direct interaction with Hasbro, and are probably the ones who spend the most time asking questions, getting insight and educating themselves on the brand…the ones who have the actual sources to go on, the ones who spend the most time researching the line… THEY are all wrong, and YOU are right.
Yeah, that pretty much follows the Alpine trail of logic.
“Um…for what it’s worth, make sure you’re rambling about me, and not the other JAY that posts here.”THE–NO–THE Jay!
Oh right! You’re simply just ANOTHER apologist.
Interesting how I asked some really good questions, Justin couldn’t answer them and then all of a sudden his pals all show up at once. Interesting.
Lady’s and Gentlemen! I give you! THE SHORE PATROL!!!
ALL HAIL HASBRO!!
(They have employees that we just call “factory workers” that hook us up with free product and we play defenders of truth!)
LOL! You guys are so damn pathetic. But I tell you what. Let’s just wait until fall and see what POC does. Then we’ll see who buys what. Deal?
Now go play with your toys boys!
“Except I said the old JB days which included VvV, Joe vs Cobra. And that means Todd that those from those days are where the apologists came from.”
So… Your ‘collector’ or ‘fanbase’ is hella-small dude. So basically you’re saying anyone who stopped giving a rat’s ass after the 90’s and only dug the 25th stuff, they’re the fan base? Everyone else are just pawns for Hasbro to move around and give out ‘false’ or rah-rah support?
Bye Bye Justin! Let us know when you get your new shipment in from that irate China factory worker that Hasbro can’t ever find and how cool the POC stuff is how we should all like it too!
“Oh right! You’re simply just ANOTHER apologist”
Yay! I’ve never really been part of a clicque before! This is rad! Do we get jackets or mugs or anything cool like that?
Justin, Todd, did you? Because if you did and I didn’t, I …well, I might think a conspiracy’s going down!
“Except I said the old JB days which included VvV, Joe vs Cobra. And that means Todd that those from those days are where the apologists came from.” -alpine
I see Dutch, or whatever name you like to hide behind. I hear what you’re saying. Btw I’m still waiting for a few responses over on JS. 😀
See Hurt Locker yet?
I never knew people could get so riled up about action figures. If you like them buy them if you don’t then don’t. Simple enough concept to me.
“Justin, Todd, did you? Because if you did and I didn’t, I …well, I might think a conspiracy’s going down!” – THE Jay
It’s not so much all the free swag I enjoy as it is the poll options you’ll now get to vote on to determine what classic characters “the everyone” is clamoring for to not see light of day and the general direction of the line.
How’s this sound… Dreadnoks – My Little Pony – 2010. Yeah you’re feeling me. 😉
Officially the most entertaining thread on GJs – EVAH!
Hell man, I hope they got my ballot nomination to have Jem in as this latest run’s guest appearance a la Matt Tracker from last time.
Sad thing is, most who know my know just how much of a joke this is. :shifty
Dammit, Justin. If you’re not going to have a forum, fix your smileys for entry responses! 😛
I wondered why this thread jumped up to 50+ responses…and then I saw way. Good ol-fashioned flame war.
Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics: even if you win, you’re still a retard.
This thread saved Monday.
BTW:
Apologist: a person who defends, in speech or writing, a faith, doctrine, idea, or action. So, who’s defending what now?
I think you “apologists” should get “Shore Patrol” shirts made up for Joe-Con, with “Hasbro 4ever” over the pocket and “Nothing but Duke and Snake Eyes!” across the back. I’d wear one if I could be there…
Really, how hard could it be for Hasbro to whip up 2 waves of the last remaining 83-86 characters as online exclusives?
As CC exclusives I think its a bad idea.
It seems the 25th line was just a giant cock tease to get old school fans back into Joes…not satisfy them with all the classic characters, but get them interested enough to buy ROC stuff.
If these PVC action figures are so $$$ to produce, then why did Hasbro do entire runs of figures, only to cancel them and have them end up on the black market?
Your right Alpine, I am an apologist. I appologize to everyone here for you being such a douche bag.
“Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics: even if you win, you’re still a retard.” – Pentastar
Yes but unlike the special olympics, we don’t all have a pizza party afterwards. But maybe Justin should get on that.
“I think you “apologists” should get “Shore Patrol” shirts made up for Joe-Con, with “Hasbro 4ever” over the pocket and “Nothing but Duke and Snake Eyes!” across the back. I’d wear one if I could be there…” – Nas
Awesome idea.
I love that term… Shore Patrol 😀
WOW………..there’s so much anger since my last post, See Hasbro……….You’ve PISSED off the MASSES!
@Dream – Pizza Party! BTW, I think I met you at SD Comic Con last year in the Hasbro Toy Shop line. Ring a bell?
@Nas – Yes you did. I’ll be there again this year but only for thursday unfortunatly, will you be there again?
“@Dream – Pizza Party! BTW, I think I met you at SD Comic Con last year in the Hasbro Toy Shop line. Ring a bell?”
If he was wearing a flame-red short skirt and a blonde wig, that was definitely Dream. Keep an eye out for him at JoeCon this year, too. Boy can’t spell worth a damn, but he’s sexy.
“If he was wearing a flame-red short skirt and a blonde wig, that was definitely Dream. Keep an eye out for him at JoeCon this year, too. Boy can’t spell worth a damn, but he’s sexy.” – Fuzzy Wzzy
It’s becuse of my long supple legs. They are by far my best feature.
I checked this post at around 1 and there was like 13 comments. I check it now and there’s 64…..ridiculous.
Oh internet, don’t go changing.
@Dream: I’ll be there, all four days, new baby allowing. Kind of a long trip for you for just one day isn’t it?
@Nas: I could only get tickets for thursday so we are going to do a few days up at Disney starting friday again this year. I get to see some palm trees, eat some in and out, ride some rides and comic con just gets to be the icing on the cake.
I don’t care too much about getting new 25th figures unless they’re Cobras. By and large I just want new, fresh product like those cancelled Target exclusives (okay so a bunch of rehashed mini-vehicles from RAH isn’t all that fresh but the colors and figure pair-ups are) or the Pursuit of Cobra.
Though I think if the Collector’s Club is aiming to help out their core market of collectors fill out the gaps of their collection rather than expand on it, more power to them.
Dear Alpine,
I’m sorry Santa didn’t bring you what you wanted for Christmas. We are apologists for Santa these days. You can call us Ski Patrol.
Love, Hasbro.
Holy crap!
I was the last person on this thread to actually answer the question asked in the article (yeah me!)….that was 50 posts ago !!!! 😮 !!!!
I am really the only person who loved the 25th line, hated RoC but is totally thrilled about PoC ????
And thanks for that Hawkwinter. 😉
Hopefully ole Hawk here is a good example that I can have totally different opinions than someone, yet still have a rational discussion without resorting to cheap insults or name calling.
I love if they put out new figures in 25th style. Since I started with the VvsV series, I am not “married” to the “O” ring style, so the 25th style woould be great to me.
Well I respect you way too much to start throwing insults…not that I normally do that anyway. And yeah, my tastes are in a different direction but we occasionally cross paths…lol. I remember us both, awed and thrilled with the non-O-ring tooled first wave of GIJoe vs Cobra figures (even though we also missed the O-ring), our point of view apparently against what seemed like the entire online GIJoe community at the time. So I know what it’s like to be on both sides. 😉
Wow, I wrote that response way too fast. The point was if I don’t throw insults why would you?
I’m with TKPrime. I just can’t afford $25 for one figure.
Eh…
I finally got my Big Lob.. so I’m all Strizzy with whatever Hasbro does…..
Oh wow, what the hell, someone goes nutts and you guys didn’t fill me in on it to wave the flames…..
THE SHAME!!!
And here I thought my comment on JBL was the flame of the week 🙁
Wow…this is classic. (Wonder where I fall in all this, since I was a Savage Soundoffs member long before JBL even existed ;D )
Anyway, to answer the question: I’ll never go and hunt down all of 82-86, either in modern style or o-ring, whether released mass market or collectors club or online exclusive. Frankly, I don’t need them all. I’m one of the “I’ll buy what I like” guys. I like the upcoming PoC Recondo figure, so I’ll buy the upcoming PoC Recondo figure. I also really liked the look of the classic Recondo and classic Ripcord, so I bought Assault on Cobra Island. As for price, I can’t see myself willingly paying $15 a figure for every figure I want. But, if I were to see a well-done update (either a la 25th or PoC) to Short Fuze, Big Ben or Heavy Duty (Lamont Morris), I’d drop that much on them.
So, I guess if it gets released, I’ll buy what I like. If it doesn’t get released, such is life. I’d prefer to be paying $5 a figure, but if it’s something I want, I’ll pay more. But I’m no completest, so I’ll never drop $15 a figure for the remaining 82-86 figures.
Lol. Man, this really DID save Monday.
Hawkwinter, I pretty much agree with you, although PoC so far is hit and miss with me. Hit, because there are so many cool looking figures and an occasional vehicle, but miss because new versions of characters like Zartan, should ACTUALLY be newer versions of guys like Raptor. (That Zartan looks ridiculous as Zartan, but makes for a cool Raptor…) And that Cobra Ice vehicle…Geez, more like the MotU Attack Track or something from Eternia, not Earth. 🙂
I think it would be nice if GIJCC filled in some holes since Hasblo won’t, I mean HasbRo won’t be completing our expectations of things they began. At the sametime, I don’t think they should focus their energies exclusively to that effort either, but then I think the membership fee is way too costly, as are their inflated prices, so I won’t be benefitting from them whichever stance is taken. Thanks for nothing, Hasblo! D’oh. Oops, did it again…I mean HasbRo.
In closing, Alpine is right. 🙂
Wow
hasn’t this question opened a can of worms
i would love to see some of the figures discussed come out somehow
i like the idea of getting some of the customises to make them,
Maybe GIJCC is the best place but hard for a collector like myself based in NZ (that New Zealand) to get hold of much of the online stuff as the exchange rate and postage out of the US is a killer for us and our local Hasbro dont stock them as there isn’t the demand from retailers.
If Hasbro could thru some online method get some of these figures like Low Light Cover Girl out in a way that they dont have to charge the earth for them i support them, if the only way is thru the GIJCC at least we get the figures,
isn’t that what we want, yes price is an issues but think about this you guys are talking about $5 a figure most figures retail here for $20 NZD yes with exchange rates you can say that is USD $14 a figure, so you can imagine what a $25 USD price point does to us.
BTW Justin thanks for having the site it must be tough sometimes, but i appreciate your time and effort, i dont always agree with some of your reviews but that is life people can have different opinions but it is not fair to get personally attacked, some people need to show some respect
if you get the t shirts made i would love one here in NZ
as we dont get to go to these fancy con’s you all get to go too,
keep up the good work there are people who appreciate it
I remember the uproar over the 2007 TFCC set. I was one of the outraged masses crying foul who also paid a premium for the set. I also remember two years later when Takara (Hasbro’s partner in Transformers) released their versions of those exclusive figures changed just enough to avoid any legal issues. While I think the demand for the later ’86 Joes warrants a main line release, or at least store exclusivity. What I see happening is that the figures, say Low Light, Dial Tone, and Footloose, will be released as Joe Club exclusives then re-released down the line repainted, probably in their Night Force colors, in a brick and mortar store or online exclusive.
Sorry, forgot to answer.
Yes, I would like to see the club finish off the 25th anni line; it would be really cool if they did some kind of numbers game such as: if X number of figures sell, we can produce a small vehicle from that era. Sure, it would cost more, but many people could finish off their collection. I think they would handle it as well as anyone else would; maybe better.
I do think the original run could be continued by the club, but I’d prefer they only visit the obscure characters. I just don’t see a point in making figures of much-anticipated characters such as Jinx or Low Light without putting them out to the masses. Guys like TKPrime don’t want to pay those prices and I think he is right not to want to on a figure that would certainly sell.
Now, if they made someone from later in the run like (for example) Night Creeper Leader or Gristle, I’d say it makes sense. Those are characters that are unlikely to be made even if the classic-style line did return to retail. The trouble for the club though is that they do need to make things that people want. So give us Billy and a proper Kwinn.
I don’t think it would be bad for them to pull choices from the original run. But character choices do exist elsewhere.
What I like from the club:
– figures I would not get from Hasbro (i.e. don’t do the botcon 07 set)
– figures that blend well with my Hasbro stuff (i.e. not the Steel Brigade with too many paint ops and not Tony the Tiger Force)
What I don’t want from the club:
– excessive creativity. I want expansion on what I already know. But Dreadheads are obviously out. Operation Anaconda Joes are also out for less obvious reasons.
– Duke, Snake Eyes, and Cobra Commander. Any version of these guys fall under the above note of things Hasbro might do.
– excessive paint. Too much makes them stand out of my collection in a bad way. Imo, the sets should supplement the vintage run (for o-rings) or the 25th line (for modern).
– bad skin colors. Why can’t the o-ring Joes match the 82-94 flesh tones?
I really don’t want Billy. Really. He’s just not that interesting to me. I would be more interested in getting El Jefe. Serious.
I would like to see some of the post-’89 figures re-worked into the modern line. This could be a very nice way to trim any goofiness off the original, take the best aspects and put a modern spin to it.
That’s all I got right now.
“The Apologists” would be a bad ass band name.
Woo-hoo! we almost get to the 100 comments here, guys! let’s keep pushing!
I don’t really want any more Hasbro G.I. Joes, really. I want the whole classic Marvel collection of characters, vehicles and bases all licensed out to LEGO. That’s what I want. LEGO minifigures of all the classics and LEGO bricks building the vehicles and bases, just like they’ve done for Star Wars. That’s what I want and that is all.
But I’ll still buy some Hasbro stuff now and then, because truly I am an Apologist.
;P
I would love to see more 25th Anniversary stuff come out but I have absolutely no interest in the GI Joe Collectors Club. So it’s a great idea but one that I would not financially support.
“I really don’t want Billy. Really. He’s just not that interesting to me. I would be more interested in getting El Jefe. Serious.
I would like to see some of the post-’89 figures re-worked into the modern line. This could be a very nice way to trim any goofiness off the original, take the best aspects and put a modern spin to it.”
See, I’m the same way. From a nostalgia standpoint, I think 82 – 86 is probably the most demanded and would make the most sense to finish out those rosters, but I don’t think they should ignore the later years. I mean, look at Alley-Viper, Range-Viper, and Night Creeper from the COBRA Island set. All three of those figures were damn impressive, and they were all based on ’89 – ’90 figures.
I think Hasbro could do some really cool updates to old school neon figures that would rock, too. Imagine the ’94 Viper in an Anniversary style with normal Viper colors instead of purple and red. Cesspool would make a GREAT Anniversary figure. There’s potential in all of the vintage years, with the right updates and tweaks to the tooling.
Sorry, just moved and was busy unpacking and settling in. But another member of the “Shore Patrol” is here!
Wow, just wow. Alpine, not sure if you go by the same name elsewhere, but man, you really know how to make a name for yourself.
I don’t recall being an apologist for Hasbro. I mean I do defend them in certain situations where I think the bashing isn’t quite called for. There generally is more to it than “Hasbro hates us” most times. As for the Wave 14 & 15 figures, like Justin said, there was more to it than Hasbro wanting to give some time before RoC hit. Retailers told Hasbro no more G.I. Joe. And when retailers like Walmart and Target tell Hasbro “no more”, they are going to listen. So instead of risking the retailers not ordering or not ordering enough RoC product, they cancelled the “25th” stuff. But did end up sending some of it to online retailers to sell. As for the PoC line-up, I do think Hasbro has something good there. I do think it will do well once it hits.
So do I think Hasbro is perfect? Hell no. I have questioned this plenty of times. Why can’t they be more open to collectors? Why can’t they be more like Mattel, like how Mattel handles MOTUC and their other collector line? Why aren’t they leveraging social media like many other businesses are doing in this day and age? Hasbro is far from perfect and I will be there to speak up about it when need be, but I will also be there to defend them when it is justified too.
Now as for Justin’s original question, I think the Club is best suited to handle the more obscure figures like others had mentioned. Figures like Billy, Kwinn, Dr. Venom, Professor Appel, Vance Wingfield and others that may not be really popular with the masses, but still have selling potential. That I would like. The opportunity to still get something that may not have mass appeal, but have a fan following enough to be produced.
Man, an updated Cesspool would be the nicest thing since Megan Fox, throw in a Toxo-viper, Muskrat (i think i’m the only one who would actually want a Muskrat fig) & Metal-Head, and i would die happy. 🙂
While I would love to see the remaining 25th figures I don’t want to see them from the Club. The price point is way too high for me and I really have issues with thier choice of skin tones(Sun burnt Baronness anyone).Oh yeah before I forget, and you guys thought I bitched alot.
“Vance Wingfield”
Now you’re talkin’!
What kinda blows my mind, thinking about it, are the amount of cool customs done all over the place that Hasbro kinda neglects. I mean, folks are frankenjoe-ing new stuff all the time, sometimes to fill those voids, and using existing parts and paint to do it. Why don’t the powers that be look at some of these (25th Oktober Guard, anyone?) and roll with some of those ideas.
Of course, it’s all down to money. But it seems stuff like that (a kick-ass Oktober Guard set in 25th style with their six-wheeled tank) would be perfect for a store exclusive, if not a club exclusive.
“Muskrat (i think i’m the only one who would actually want a Muskrat fig)”
Nah, I’m all about a Muskrat figure. 🙂
“So do I think Hasbro is perfect? Hell no. I have questioned this plenty of times. Why can’t they be more open to collectors? Why can’t they be more like Mattel, like how Mattel handles MOTUC and their other collector line? Why aren’t they leveraging social media like many other businesses are doing in this day and age? Hasbro is far from perfect and I will be there to speak up about it when need be, but I will also be there to defend them when it is justified too.”
Ugh, I think Mattel is handling their lines very poorly, at least in terms of distribution and availability. Let’s not make that comparison. 🙂
“Figures like Billy, Kwinn, Dr. Venom, Professor Appel, Vance Wingfield and others that may not be really popular with the masses, but still have selling potential.”
“But it seems stuff like that (a kick-ass Oktober Guard set in 25th style with their six-wheeled tank) would be perfect for a store exclusive, if not a club exclusive.”
Yes please.
“Ugh, I think Mattel is handling their lines very poorly, at least in terms of distribution and availability. Let’s not make that comparison. :)” — Fogger
I don’t mean distribution and availability. They are flawed too. I mean getting involved with the collectors and communicating like Mattel does. Hasbro needs to stop being so cryptic about everything.
Yeah, but that’s the one thing Alpine was right about; Hasbro just doesn’t pay enough attention to the collectors as if we don’t exist, even as the collectors are the ones that are constantly interrogating them in every Q&A’s
Man, i don’t recall toy collecting being so stressful as a child.
“i think i’m the only one who would actually want a Muskrat fig”
Nope, me too! 🙂 I made a fairly easy custom of Muskrat not too long ago. Maybe if I send Justin some pics he’ll post it. 😀
If he had simply stated that fact, Neon-Viper, that would be fine. I would actually agree with that. Hasbro has to balance the collectors and the kids, and sometimes they do lean too far one way. But I don’t think they completely ignore the collectors entirely, that simply is not the case. I mean, look at Pursuit of Cobra. Many of our specific complaints (spring-loaded weapons, boring color schemes, non military appearance, actor heads, price point) are being specifically addressed. You can bet the kids weren’t asking for all of those changes.
Go for it, Todd! Love to see it. 😉
Yay! 100 Comments!
Can’t anyone fight dirty and end this fight? I mean, c’mon, use nukes, not words.
As to the question, No I don’t want the GIJCC to pick up the unproduced figures. It has more to do with the overcharging, mismangement of the organization than the product. Seriously, I’ll give you an action figure and a literal kick in the nuts for $20 (profiting 10-12 after shipping) than taking a metaphoric kick and a figure for $40. If some one else was to do with with slightly inflated prices that has a concept of inventory, logistics, and uses the new fangled internet for e-commerce, I might get on board. Although I’m not really interested in anything more at this point.
To throw gasoline on the almost doused fire, but isn’t there enough blame with case assortments (Hasbro’s fault) and distribution (retailers) to really site as the fall of the 25th line? It’s compounded slightly by the 2nd largest modern era recession, one of the largest increases in diesel costs, followed by overall petroleum products cost (and I’m mocked for wanting Hasbro or other plastic heavy industries to research into making plastic from plant sources). Either way, if failed in the end and wave 1 ROC over ordering by retailers based on Hasbro hype pretty much ensured that later waves would never happen, which is typical in most movie tie in toy lines.
And FYI, it is possible to know more about the line than the fan site moderators. If you’re a shareholder in the company, an industrial engineer/designer, retail analyst etc, you better know more/be a source for the fanboys. But since this is the internet, it is impossible that some one might actually know what exactly is going on.
Listen, the POC line is meant to heal the fanbase, not destroy it. Hug it out people. Listen, in answer to the Club filling the 82-86 line up, absolutely not. The Club should really continue to do what it’s doing….making International, and obscure characters. If I’m paying $30 a figure, it had better be for something original. In answer to Alpine’s comments: I have no doubt the big ‘H’ will come through with Dial-Tone, Airtight, Footloose, Lifeline, etc. because literally, we have asked about them every in every damned Q & A. EVERY ONE. Can you really think of a time when Hasbro hasn’t come through in that respect? Sgt. Slaughter? Done. The premature end of Rise of Cobra toys? Done. Resolute toys? Done. Dr. Mindbender, Alley Viper, Recondo? Done. Done. And Done.
It might not be in the time table you, or I, would prefer, but we will see those figs. I’ve certainly been pretty critical of Hasbro’s decision making process, but eventually, they come around to our way of thinking.
And Alpine, there’s nothing wrong with liking the Sigma 6 line. It was really a quality line!
– If he had simply stated that fact, Neon-Viper, that would be fine. I would actually agree with that. Hasbro has to balance the collectors and the kids, and sometimes they do lean too far one way. But I don’t think they completely ignore the collectors entirely, that simply is not the case. I mean, look at Pursuit of Cobra. Many of our specific complaints (spring-loaded weapons, boring color schemes, non military appearance, actor heads, price point) are being specifically addressed. You can bet the kids weren’t asking for all of those changes.
Well, in a big way, that is kind of the point, Justin, as it seems more and more that Hasbro is more interested in attempting some new “doomed to failure” line, like Sigma Sux …I mean Sigma 6 or RoC, etc., to draw in a new group of cash cows (we call those parents, they have kids, kids who are gullible and all about the next new thing). Hasbro gets so involved in dragging these other dollars, that they become the focus, NOT the long time/long term FANS of the franchise. So, no, they don’t COMPLETELY ignore us, but yes they DO push us off far too often while they try to score points with these kids and fringe fans who inevitably lose interest when a newer more interesting toy comes along.
As for kids not asking for the changes we often get to figures, why would they? Most of them don’t care long enough in the first place and even if they become hooked, they still usually don’t have a clue as to whom they should address their desires at Hasbro. Most adults don’t for that matter, and even when they do, Hasbro ignores it half the time or has to be proven that something THEY would rather do isn’t a solid concept.
I am glad they are finally listening about at least a few things, such as ending RoC, S6, etc., new head sculpts and so on. That’s terrific, and even the PoC line isn’t anything more or less than figure lines we have had in the past from the classic runs. Different figures, some same characters, yeah, but new takes and cool uniforms and gear, and most importantly, no stupid launchy things. This STILL does not excuse Hasbro for all the other stuff they do to us or shaft us on, though, and that seems to be the majority of what they do best, not make nice with their collector foundation.
Also, after reading all of the comments and arguments for/against Justin’s initial question, I believe that if I were a member of the GIJCC, I would prefer to get the more obscure characters that had never been done before rather than something that Hasbro could eventually decide they should do based on demand. I won’t be able to get any of them, but I’d rather know I wasn’t missing out on a critical classic figure because I can’t/won’t pay the massive fees for membership.
Alpine is still right though, insults aside, his points are all quite valid.
Sometimes i think that even Hasbro doesn’t know what to do with the franchise, that’s why in every Q&A they go: “we’ll see” “maybe” “we’re looking at that possibility” ’cause even they don’t know what the hell will happen, maybe tomorrow some executives choose to cancel the whole thing, make an ice-cream soldier exclusive, etc. who really knows? we are all especulating here.
In defense of Alpine….
Yeah, I know. I’m asking for it.
However, it’s hard not to look over this thread and see how you all came out of the woodwork to team up on him and remain quiet as he had some very good points. In many ways you proved everything he said about “apologists” and sticking together and silencing anyone who doesn’t believe as you do.
So, I’ll try to start a more rational discussion.
I once attended a service industry seminar (back before my career was established elsewhere) where the guy talked about dis-satisfied customers. The biggest problem? Disapoint a customer and most of them will simply not return. There is a saying that for every customer who complains, there are 10 who simply won’t come back. The lecturer pointed out that sadly it’s probably closer to 1:100. And some will complain more than others. Some will be upset but still return, maybe after some time has passed. Yet still others will keep returning even to rude service if your business is offering something they really like and can only get there.
The metaphor of course refers to us (the fans,customers) and Hasbro (the business). Hasbro is a business. Businesses want to make money. They need to make money, especially when they have shareholders. Good business dictates that you listen to what your clientele wants. Not each individual mind you, but on a whole.
So again, I can apply a saying that fits the situation : Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Meaning, he who complains loudest and longest, will most likely be taken care of first.
The big problem with what lots of you are doing is that whenever someone voices their frustration over what is going on in the GIJoe universe these days people take it personally, like someone is trying to attack them, their hobby or even Hasbro. None of us want Hasbro to disapear. We may say it at times (maybe many times) but what we really want is for them to listen to what we are saying. So you try to quiet them. This is what gives people like Alpine, and myself as well, the impression that there is some sort of communal fear of annoying Hasbro. But they need to hear what we are saying. We’re not saying everything since 86 is crap.
We’re saying, stop using us.
Franchise fans are loyal. Extremely so. They invest time, money, their hearts and after a certain amount of time expect to be taken seriously. So it’s only natural that after years of Hasbro trying oddball ideas (annoying the core fanbase) and then when they fail going back to more traditional GIJoe (knowing full well that if they give us what we want we’ll forgive and forget and come back), that we are a little tired of this crap.
Now why are things such a big deal nowadays? I mean, yeah, lots of us moaned and complained about Valor vs Venom but with RoC it seems people can’t let it go. I would think everyone has their own story but I’ll tell you why it’s such a big deal to me. After RoC GIJoe is a much better known property worldwide. Not as the GIJoe I know and love, but as a cheesy, cornball version of what I know and love. Now, when I talk to people about the GIJoe projects I am involved with and my collection and all those things, there is always someone who goes “Oh yeah, I saw that movie”. And right there and then I know he has absolutely no idea what GIJoe is or why I love it so much. And on top of that he probably thinks I’m a total loser for being so into it. And based on just the movie, he’d be right.
So while efforts like VvV and S6 irked me, they were just simple cases of, well, I don’t like the toys anymore, so I won’t buy them. But now, what they did with the movie had an overall effect on this whole franchise. And in my opinion, a very negative one at that.
Now apply this to the toys. To me, and others the 25th line was fantastic for many more reasons than just re-doing old figures. I loved the new sculpting and look of the figures. But they also started throwing in cool new additions that we hadn’t seen before but fit perfectly into the already established GIJoe world. I don’t think anyone can say that it wasn’t the 25th line as well as DDP that re-vitalized GIJoe and even brought thinsg to the point where they could make a movie.
And what they did with this was to re-invent GIJoe as some B-movie crap and flood the shelves with RoC toys that bear no resemblance to what we remember GIJoe to be.
It is simply NOT good business to through away your tried and true fan-base (customers) in some desperate attempt to get a different fan-base that may or may not spend more money. Period. This is why Alpine (and others) have so often brought up the fact that Hasbro could of easily been giving us one or two old-school figures as they went along to at least acknowledge that they still give a crap about us. It’s just good business. Like sending a Christmas card to a customer who bought something from you in January that year. You may really only want to get them to spend more money at your store, but it gives the appearance that it’s more than just money to you. Also good business.
In these economic times Hasbro cannot afford to anger the people that are always buying their product, and the changes made to the PoC line show a step in the right direction and that they are listening to some extent, though I have my own opinions that they aren’t doing quite enough but I do realize there is some effort there.
Why? Because people complained to them. In many different ways. Sales were not to expectations (and for the last time, not to expectation does not mean that sales weren’t good. Why do people keep getting all confused by this idea?), they recieved lots of complaints, I noticed most Q&As were about 25th, Resolute or obscure stuff when Hasbro was probably hoping for some excitement about RoC, and there has been an unrelenting push to get GIJoe back to GIJoe as it was and should be. Even IDW has caved, with the upcoming continuation of the original Marvel run.
Now, to bring this all back to the original point. For each one of us complaining about what’s going on, about a 100 simply walked away. It takes effort (read : money) for a business to get a dissatisfied customer to return.
And to also bring it back to Alpine : where you guys see someone endlessly complaining, a see a very frustrated fan who cares very much about GIJoe and is angry that it’s all being ruined. And much worse, most of you don’t even seem to care. Just whatever we get is fine. (Although it is interesting to note that tehre is more enthusiasm for the PoC line than there was for the RoC line, seeing that PoC is more to the liking of us complaining people.)
And while I’m not ever in favor of calling people names and insulting them as it really doesn’t help the situation, I can see how it’s a lot of frustration on his part, because for the most part I feel the same way.
Now, having said all that, I do feel PoC is a step in the right direction, but there’s still a ways to go before things are okay again. The big problem? The 2012 seuqel to RoC. If it was a re-boot I’d be optomistic, but as a sequel? No chance. And taht spells bad news for the toyline.
Yet, somewhere deep down I still have hope, otherwise I wouldn’t be here posting, and I would assume that even Alpine has some hope things may one day be better again, though obviously these are all just my opinions, can’t really speak for anyone else.
You are right, Hawkwinter…I agree with nearly everything you say. And if Alpine said it the same way, I would have no issues with it. In fact, Alpine has been posting here for a veeery long time, and I never said a thing, until he suddenly became very disrespectful.
And that’s where the issue lies. I have NO ISSUES with people having opposing viewpoints, as long as they can debate them intelligently. When I start having an issue is when people assume that just because I’m supporting Hasbro, I’m being a shameless apologist who is blind to their flaws…well that downright pisses me off. It makes the accusation that somehow my opinions are invalid simply because I like something you don’t.
Did I love the Rise of Cobra film? No, not especially. Did I enjoy it? Yeah, I did. Am I being a Hasbro apologist because I enjoyed it? I thought the majority of the toys were very, VERY nice, especially when compared to shlock like Terminator, Star Trek, and Avatar. Am I being a blind apologist because I have the gall to actually LIKE the toys? Some would say yes, and that’s what sets me off.
Just because I like something doesn’t mean I can’t be objective. Objective DOES NOT EQUAL NEGATIVE. It never has. If Alpine would bother to read through my review archive, he would see plenty of constructive criticism. He seems to love to point out that I hate the classics and lavish all of this praise on Rise of Cobra, but if you even look at my 50 greatest figures articles, the Anniversary product widely outnumbers the Rise of Cobra product on that list.
Look, I know my tastes are eccentric compared to most folks. I love the 90’s stuff, most people don’t. I enjoyed the “new sculpt era” thoroughly, most people didn’t. I was a huge Sigma 6 fan, not so much pretty much anyone else. And that somehow invalidates my opinion. Simply because I don’t agree with him.
THAT’S what pisses me off. It has nothing to do with the “squeaky wheel” or the fact that I don’t agree with his opinions. It’s the way he was voicing those opinions and attacking me for mine that set me off.
Well, for the record, you actually had a reason to be annoyed and say the things you did, because yeah, you were being attacked. Perhaps I should of said something in my post that pointed out that fact. My goal was more to get some responses from everyone else who thought the whole thing was a freakin funny affair and were clearly just posting to annoy the crap out of Alpine, who had already apparently had a bad day. (??)
And also for the record, I do respect your opinions, all of you, and I do not think there was any overall plan to flock together like you did, but the end result does look like you were doing exactly what he claimed you were.
No, there was definitely no plan. I mean, it’s obvious…these guys are friends of mine, and the reason we’re friends is because we share a lot of the same viewpoints. When Alpine came out of left field like he did, it kind of set some people off. There was definitely not any sort of concerted effort, believe me, I wouldn’t waste time setting up something like that just to drive someone off. I can just IP ban if I care that much (which I didn’t).
What the GIJCC needs to release next, is a PITT Fatigues version of Sgt. Slaughter, complete with assignment orders and his shoulder slung Ditty Bag. This is a Sarge figure that is obscure yet fans would likely take to, and since Hasbro has the main versions covered with the SDCC exclusives, this would be perfect for the GIJCC niche figures.
tl:dr Just kidding, all I can muster is Lol wut?!
Hawkwinter, that was easily one of the most well thought out and well put together explanations of “fandom” I’ve ever read. It was so well worded I find myself agreeing with you on nearly every point. While I don’t agree with how MOTUC is done (those are some rather expensive figures considering most of them have the same molding) you have to admit that a line catering directly to adult fans is a good idea. Something similar setup for GI Joe so that fans could get their classic characters in 25th form would be a good idea.
Now, the reason people heaped on Alpine wasn’t just because of this post, but because on nearly EVERY post that had to do with ROC or POC Alpine was just extremely negative. On more than one occasion I found myself saying “man, does he even like GI Joe? It almost sounds like he’s just trolling.” That gets very old after a while….Being surrounded by negative people, in any aspect of life, just ends up draining your interest in that aspect.
Strider said : Now, the reason people heaped on Alpine wasn’t just because of this post, but because on nearly EVERY post that had to do with ROC or POC Alpine was just extremely negative.
Thanks Strider and that is a good point and I do admit it is hard to always hear the same thing over and over again, especially if it’s negative. From his point of view though, and others, and even me a lot of the time, it does seem like there is one disapointing announcement after another.
And I think that people sometimes forget that for those who really liked the idea of them doing the old Joe figs again in new molds, stopping it about 2/3 through would of been like they had stopped RoC without giving us a Breaker, Zartan or Heavy Duty figure and just simply moved along to PoC. It would bug the crap out of you wouldn’t it? (and in case these three figures don’t appeal to you, then substitute them with some characters you do care about for this analogy). The big problem is we all know there is very little we can do about it. We’re just one little consumer trying to get a massive corporation to do what we want. So complaining on fan sites like this is about all we can really do, desperately hoping that if enough of us band together we may indeed get something going our way. And it does work to some extent. But man, it’s a frustrating process…lol.
And don’t think I want to hate new stuff. Not at all. I really wish I loved the RoC toys, I really, really do. For the first time in over a decade I can find nearly any Joe toy on the shelves at anytime. Which is awesome. But I’m only buying a few here and there because they just don’t appeal to me. I have great fears that PoC will be released to a smaller circle of stores again like before and just when things are getting better again (IMO) I won’t have such great access to the toys again.
I would be all for a special collectors line at a higher price point. But as soon as they raise the price the expectations rise as well. So it would need to be done right. Mistakes like the convulted hands from the 25th Viper would not be worth my dollars in a collectors line. I honestly am unfamiliar how the MOTUC line works, and just how much fan input there is, so maybe my concerns would be addressed in a similar approach to the GIJoe classic line.
“And I think that people sometimes forget that for those who really liked the idea of them doing the old Joe figs again in new molds, stopping it about 2/3 through would of been like they had stopped RoC without giving us a Breaker, Zartan or Heavy Duty figure and just simply moved along to PoC. It would bug the crap out of you wouldn’t it?” — Hawkwinter
But what about the fact that the “25th Anniversary” line wasn’t meant to be much more than a couple box sets? Then a couple of waves of figures. I think the fact that Hasbro turned it into what it was is a great thing. They didn’t have to do that, but they did wave after wave and would have continued, but RETAILERS said no more. So again to get angry at Hasbro for stopping the “25th” isn’t exactly fair. The logical thing to do was what they did, stop the “25th” production and start focusing on their movie line which they already invested a ton of money in.
So getting upset we didn’t get every figure from ’82 to ’86 just seems futile. Is that to say that I wouldn’t want to see those figures made, no, not at all. I would love to see them get made. But I’m not going to lash out at Hasbro at any chance I get. I look at the GI Joe brand as a whole, not just vintage ARAH or S6 or VvV or “25th” or RoC, I look at it as GI Joe. I just want to see the brand thrive and be a prospering line and that is what I hope happens with the Pursuit of Cobra line-up.
WildWeasel, I really like the point you made about the 25th line; Hasbro expanded it far beyond what it was originally intended to be, and the fact that it was cancelled was not necessarily the result of some soulless corporate decision by Hasbro. That really puts it in perspective for me.
The reality is, there are a lot of GI Joe fans that loved the 25th line. Personally, I wouldn’t be collecting again if that line of toys hadn’t hit all the right notes with me. It reconnected me with my childhood to see those modern toys with classic looks in classic packaging. Like others, I felt like the 25th line ended too soon. It would be nice and convenient if we could blame Hasbro for ending it, but like you explained, the modern toy retail environment doomed that line to a limited (albeit wonderful) shelf life.
In the same way that the 25th line reconnected me with my childhood, seeing it end was like experiencing the dissapointments of childhood all over again. Maybe that is why this thread struck such a nerve with some people.
I’ve posted in similar conversations on other boards, and I have usually taken the attitude that Hawkwinter has, most recently on HT, where I tried to be the reasonable poster just as Hawkwinter has in this thread. Since that is taken care of here, I’ll go ahead and add that the biggest problem with Alpine being the “squeaky wheel,” Hawkwinter, is that all of the squeaks are misspelled, incoherent, reek of paranoia, and are better than half profane. Nothing ticks me off quite like a ranting fanboy that lives up to the negative stereotypes pop-culture enthusiasts (read: toy/comic book nerds)have to endure.
On topic- I’m torn about the club doing a project like this. On the one hand, I’d love to see these figures made, but would be afraid that the club would price me out of them. On the other hand, I’d love for Master Collector to take on as many projects that are doomed to fail, because of their perpetual bungling, as possible, which hopefully would lead to their demise, which hopefully would lead to someone better becoming the con runners.
I’m all for people with different oppions if they can offer them with out being an ass.
In reponce #17 Alpine decided that he was gonna try and point out my motivations. Besides being compeletly wrong in his assesment, it seems a little arogent to me for him to think he some how knows whats going on in my head. Additionaly the fact is that I collect everything 1982 – now and even some 60’s stuff (wha? 12″?!?). I loved RAH, 25th, and ROC. I even customize in all 3 mediums. Being a completest doen’t make me a apalogist, it makes me a competest. And just becuse I chose to buy something that he doesn’t like doesn’t make me any less of a “fan” then he is. Let me make this very clear, I will buy one of everything and not be appologetic about it.
I also don’t think that it’s right for him to claim that the “fans” didn’t like something. I’m a fan and maybe I did like it. And maybe somebody else likes something else. There is no concensus among everyone in the community, and you should not claim to represent anyones opions other then your own.
I can understand that people are frustrated, even I am (I really wanted that Desert Ram with Sandstorm, and a Night Force Falcon) but that doesn’t give him a free license to be a jerk. But the fact is that my frustration is not that bad. I’m pretty happy right now with things. I can understand why people are un happy, but please don’t say that we all feel that way, becuse it’s just not true.
For all of you guys out there going on and on about Alpine being “negative” about Hasbro and the franchise in general, and about how that just really gets old after awhile… Try thinking about it from his point of view. But since most of you won’t, let me play Devil’s Advocate here and explain it.
He is entitled to his opinions, opinions which I generally share for the most part, based on 25+ years of collecting Joe and other things. Sure, the “Hasbro Yes Men’s Club” I keep seeing pop up to down him, will disagree. Why wouldn’t they? I mean they don’t want to admit that he might just be right about his viewpoints (and he is for the most part), and so they see his views as an annoyance, no matter how much they say they don’t mind a differing point of view.
So, yes, he complains and comes off as negative and it bugs you because it gets old. Well guess what, fellas? I can safely say here, without one iota of doubt, that I feel very confident that Alpine gets even MORE tired of you guys always praising Hasbro and going on about how awesome and wonderful 90% of what they do is, or how you will buy one of everything (again, this contributes to the problem of us getting crap more often than not, because some guys just cannot show restraint to kiss Hasbro’s backside by purchasing everything they can get ahold of), or even if you only buy what you like (as I do) but still praise Hasbro in the face of hard facts or because you don’t want to be beat down by the “Shore Patrol” as some here have been dubbed recently.
So having a squeaky wheel is annoying to you guys, okay fine example, but I find it refreshing to see someone speak up and be heard in spite of being ganged up on repeatedly for having a different opinion than you. Also, whether you can see it or not, having a ton of “yes men” constantly going on and on about how great Hasbro is, in SPITE of constant screw ups and disappointments, the very SAME screw ups and disappointments that Alpine points out and many of you talk about and casually dismiss while offering an excuse for Hasbro, is JUST as annoying as you all claim his complaints are. Actually, they can be even more annoying because you all outnumber him 10 to one from what I see, probably more than that.
I’ll let you in on a little secret though…Just because you don’t agree with everything he says, doesn’t mean he isn’t just as right as you are, and vice versa. He has his opinions, as do I, as do all of you, and whether we like them or not, we’re all entitled to express them. Sure, more tact could be used on occassion, but Alpine isn’t alone in the lack of tact department, as I’ve noticed several of the posters on here posting with just as little tact as Alpine has been accused of, and most of it directed back at him, whether on this thread or not.
I’d say none of our opinions are likely to change in the face of such attitudes. Some people are realists, some live in a Hasbro fantasy land, and some fall inbetween, and that also isn’t likely to change. However, constantly attacking Alpine (and others with his viewpoints) only shows me one thing, and that is he may be more right that you’d care to admit and you’re doing everything you can to silence the voice of reason. You know, the majority isn’t always right, especially when it is a mob mentality doing the thinking, rather than relying on our OWN individual intelligence and the ability to look at things AS an individual and not part of a club where you may be looked down upon for having a different view from the majority.
So, to close, Alpine’s minority negativity is only as annoying as the newly dubbed “Shore Patrol’s” excessive positivity. (Also, jumping on the so-called “Shore Patrol” bandwagon to beat down Alpine, only confirms the gang/club/mob mentality. I would encourage that to stop, as it only helps to point out who those are that need group support, rather than individual standing power.) These type of things also only serve to cause division and bullying to increase, and that is far worse than Alpine taking a negative stance against most of what Hasbro has done in recent years, even if it’s across the board.
Oh and Dream? When he says “all”, he really just means “most in general”. He isn’t speaking literally that every single person feels this way. It’s called a “broad generalization” which also should not necessarily be taken as being all encompassing in nature, he wasn’t trying to include you specifically in his statements, at least Im pretty sure he wasn’t. (And before another person complains about Alpine’s spelling, re-read Dream’s entire post carefully, and if you don’t see anything wrong, then you can’t spell either. No offense to you, Dream, just pointing out that their complaints against his spelling and grammar aren’t legitimate if they aren’t attacking everyone’s spelling and grammar, only his specifically, because he doesn’t agree with them on 99% of things. I’m glad to hear though that at least one person is totally happy with GI Joe right now, I only wish I were. Congratulations on living the “dream”, Dream.)
I will concede that there is no reason to throw insults, tell people what they think or which group they belong to. I’m not condoning the method by any means. I was refferring more to the message beneath it and I guess it seems a lot of people agree when it comes down to it.
However, I’m more than a little skeptical about this sudden idea of “Hasbro stopped the 25th line because retailers told them they didn’t want anymore”. Now while I could even understand that, as Hasbro all of a sudden decided to package Flints, Dukes and what have you from previous waves in every single new wave they sent out, the reality is that there was never one word of this reason when they cancelled the line. It’s kind of become the common thing to say in the past few months by all those who support RoC. The word from Hasbro was that they wanted to leave some time for product to clear shelves so that when RoC product hit, there would not be any confusion between the two. There were MASSIVE debates across the Joe sites about whether this was a good tactic or not. I remember cause I was really ticked off.
Now yeah, Hasbro could of said that to hide that sales were poor, that’s good marketing and PR, except for the fact that I know how hard it was to even find waves 12 and 13. It took months for me to get them all. I had seven different E-Bay sellers that I bought all my stuff from scouring trying to find what I wanted, because Hasbro who they normally bought the waves from was telling them they didn’t have enough stock to keep up with demand. These are guys I bought all my stuff from, you guys gonna tell me every single one of them was lieing and wanted to miss out on a sure fire sale? I have friends all over the States and while some areas recieved lots of those last waves and even very early shipments, most of the country recieved next to nothing. So yeah, sales might be bad when no one can get your product. By the time online stores had a decent amount and people could get them, the cancellation announcement had already been made. So sorry if I don’t just buy into this sudden new theory of the 25th line being cancelled due to poor sales, which seems to have arisen just after we discovered that the RoC stuff hadn’t done as well as they hoped and GIJoe was being put on a small hiatus until the fall.
That being said, I’m all for being “proven” wrong.
But lets have a small reality check here. We are the customers. Whether companies realize it or not, we are always right. Because if we don’t like what they offer, we don’t buy and they lose money. So while yes, it was awesome the 25th line was expanded as it was, we owe no big thank you to Hasbro for that. We are responsible for that. We bought the stuff like rabid wolves and in Hasbro’s own words, took them off guard at how much demand there was for it. They made more because we kept buying and they were making money. The thank yous need to go to our fellow Joe fans.
However, that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate in general that we did recieve so many cool figures, I just don’t think we need to act like Hasbro went out of their way to do us a favor. Without us, the customers, there is no GIJoe for Hasbro to sell. That’s fact.
Hawkwinter, you’ve nailed it, particularly in those last two paragraphs.
Without US there is no Hasbro (and that extends out to the fans/consumers of Joe, Tfs, Star Wars, Marvel, or whatever. The customer is key.
Actually, I first heard the cancellation rumor back around February/March of 2009. And as for Waves 12 and 13 selling out, you may be missing the forest for the trees here. My Toys R Us still has Senior Ranking Officer and 5 packs from 2008. Around a year ago, when the line ended, there were still DVD Battle Packs clogging shelves – Set 1, Set 2, and the Greatest Battles sets were especially abundant. VAMPs and SHARCs sat on shelves for months at an end. And the Targets were flooded with Conquests, Rattlers, and their repaints. So while the individually carded figures sold well, many of the larger sets did not.
Silent Master –
Regarding the “gang up” mentality, I just want to be sure it is crystal clear that Alpine has been commenting here for a VERY long time with his same opposing viewpoints and never ONCE got gained up against, until he started being an asshole.
It’s not the opinion itself, it’s the way he stated that opinion. I can certainly understand his frustration. If every single Joe site I went to held the opposite opinion that I did about something, I would get upset as well, but the constant barrage and the accusations that our opinions are somehow “wrong” just because we have the balls to enjoy G.I. Joe in 2010 is what gets me the most.
Even you have accused folks who enjoy this stuff of having low standards, which is ridiculous. I’ve based my opinions on nearly 30 years of experience in the toy field, how are my opinions any less valid than yours simply because I like this stuff.
To you, a resemblance to the vintage line is an important component. To me it isn’t. Personally, I prefer highly articulated figures with great range of motion, great sculpting, and a nice blend between military realism and science fiction, and I felt like the Rise of Cobra toyline delivered on those aspects that I love so much about G.I. Joe. In fact, in some ways (especially when it comes to range of motion in the elbows, hips, and knees) I felt like The Rise of Cobra was a step ABOVE the Anniversary line. Those are simply my opinions. That’s not me being a Hasbro apologist. Hell, if I was a shameless Hasbro apologist why wasn’t I slobbering all over the Anniversary line when it was hitting full force? Because I wasn’t a huge fan of some of the stuff they were doing. I’m not going to puff up something I don’t believe deserves it.
I do think to some extent some folks are funneling things they see around the ‘net and taking out frustrations here, which is fine. But I resent the implications that I’m blinded by Hasbro loyalty and I just gush rampant positivity with no objectiveness. Read my reviews. There is a healthy dose of constructive criticism there.
The distribution of the Anniversary line near the middle and end of its run was horrendous. Hasbro Maketing did a terrible job of weighing case pack outs, fulfilling orders with popular products, and they really screwed the pooch with inflated expectations for the Rise of Cobra product, which led to this sudden separation. They aren’t perfect. I don’t think they’re perfect. But I still love the majority of their toys and think they have some of the best designers in the business.
People are more than welcome to spread any opinions they want here on the site. I welcome intelligent discourse and debate. It’s part of what makes the fandom fun. But when someone like Alpine goes haywire and starts insulting me, well, I appreciate that some guys who enjoy the site come to my defense. Did it go overboard? Yeah, it did, but you know what? Alpine went just as overboard, it was just 1 guy going nuts compared to 8. 😉
In fact, just to demonstrate how much I welcome viewpoints from the other side, I have offered Hawkwinter a staff position at the site, which he has accepted. So anyone who is adamant that I refuse to offer a counter opinion to my pro-G.I. Joe stance…well, there you go.
But anyway. As long as people can respect the other side and not insinuate that anyone’s opinion is less valid or is somehow low on standards simply because it doesn’t agree with yours, then anyone and everyone is welcome to comment here. Expect intelligent rebuttle, but nobody here is interested in a gang-up attack, and I don’t think there were any examples of that until Alpine’s latest name-calling event.
“And before another person complains about Alpine’s spelling, re-read Dream’s entire post carefully, and if you don’t see anything wrong, then you can’t spell either.” – Silent Master
Actually I’m guessing I probably spell worse the Alpine on the whole. I’ll never claim to spell well or get on anyone else for it. Not that you were getting on me (as you stated), I just know I’m the last person in the world that should ever proof read anything.
Bad spelling is my calling card lol.
I can totally respect that, Justin, and just to be clear on my end, I didn’t call anyone an apologist and certainly not you in particular.
I really don’t mind that some people like the S6 stuff or RoC or just whatever, that’s fine too, but certain of those people (not you) shouldn’t try and shove down my throat how awesome it is just because I happen to think it isn’t that great or if I think it outright sucks for some reason.
I say Tomayto you say Tomahto, but it still has the same seeds inside. Sure, the articulation of a good bit of the RoC stuff may be better than the 25th line, but that’s what happens after time has allowed for certain aspects to be streamlined and improved to the next level. It most likely would have been the same if Hasbro had released the RoC figures before the 25th line, making the 25th line the better and with slicker articulation of the two groups. Wouldn’t you agree?
Now, I’m not advocating Alpine’s approach towards you at all, it wasn’t the best way to make his point, I agree, but he definitely managed to grab peoples’ attention and laid his feelings on the table, even if it was out of frustration. Doesn’t make it right, but it is understandable, and it also shows he definitely has a passion for what he believes in and what he believes GI Joe should or shouldn’t be.
As far as me accusing people who like certain things of having low standards, I’ll take responsibility for that to an extent, but I still believe it applies based on my own standards. That in no way means that you can’t enjoy it if you like it, it simply means that I don’t care for it, won’t support it, and will encourage others who may not really like it not to buy/support it JUST because it has a GI Joe logo somewhere on it, or they feel this “completist” urge out of fear that Hasbro won’t make more stuff if they don’t buy EVERYTHING. That is completely different than suggesting that NO ONE buy it JUST because I personally don’t like it. I think that’s a pretty fair way of putting it without seeming to belittle your particular enjoyment of something I may detest, don’t you?
I do disagree that RoC captured more of what GI Joe has always been though. Not because of the better articulation or sculpting but because I feel like that line was a direct departure from the established individuality that each of these characters has had in every other line that has come before, for the most part. Even S6 which I hated, had that united individuality with their costumes and personalities. I didn’t care for most of it, but at least it was still there and they resembled the older characters that I’ve grown to love… sometimes.
RoC on the other hand, was just dark and bland through and through, from costuming to colorations and just felt completely generic, making the figures good for nothing (to me anyway) more than as customizing fodder once the prices dropped as they sat on the peg for months on end right up till now even. To you they are awesome, to me they are terrible, as what Joe should be, but that’s fine because we don’t have to agree on it. I simply won’t buy anything that I don’t like or can’t use, and you can grab everything that comes out, it’s the people who don’t like what they are buying and STILL buy it anyway that I’m talking about having “low standards”, more than anything else, I guess. It isn’t intended as a slight against you or those who actually LIKE it, whatever “it” is, more that it just isn’t up to my own expectations of what I prefer to see, and I don’t think it sends the proper “message” to Hasbro when these types buy the stuff even when they don’t like it, just to “support the brand”.
So, just to reiterate, Justin, my problem per se, isn’t and wasn’t with you. Mainly it was with the attack dogs spouting their pro-Hasbro rhetoric and slamming on Alpine for disagreeing. Personally, I’m sure it felt good to have so many of them jumping to your defense, as it were, but from what I know of you and from what I’ve seen in my short time on your site, you are more than capable of handling your own battles in an intelligent fashion, without a posse of yes men to defend you against a lone opinion. I have my opinions, to be sure, and they are generally pretty strong opinions, just so you know, and I can get rather passionate about them, just as you or Alpine may, but I am still capable of seeing both sides of things and making a rational judgement/decision of what I may or may not believe, on my own. I cannot say the same is true of all your posters though, and I think that is where a good bit of the conflict of opinion gets away from us sometimes.
As far as you and I go, I have the utmost respect for you and what you do here, whether we agree on everything or not, and again, my comments were not intended for you personally. We don’t always have to agree just to be able to get along, now do we? 😉
– Actually I’m guessing I probably spell worse the Alpine on the whole. I’ll never claim to spell well or get on anyone else for it. Not that you were getting on me (as you stated), I just know I’m the last person in the world that should ever proof read anything.
Bad spelling is my calling card lol. — Dream
Lol, no, definitely wasn’t getting on you, D. Thanks much for understanding my intentions there and not feeling offended.
Some of us spell better than others, that’s a fact, but as long as what is typed out can be understood, that’s the important part, right? I mean, hey, I can spell and edit, but I can’t build an engine or play the guitar, although I suppose I could learn if I had the interest, oh, and the time, lol.
Silent Master, thanks for taking the time to read and reply.
“I say Tomayto you say Tomahto, but it still has the same seeds inside. Sure, the articulation of a good bit of the RoC stuff may be better than the 25th line, but that’s what happens after time has allowed for certain aspects to be streamlined and improved to the next level. It most likely would have been the same if Hasbro had released the RoC figures before the 25th line, making the 25th line the better and with slicker articulation of the two groups. Wouldn’t you agree?”
Absolutely. In fact, the 25th Anniversary line itself exploded by leaps and bounds as it went on. Comparing the initial 2 5-packs to some of the later releases was like night and day. Differences between figures like the two 5-Pack Baroness figures, Roadblock vs. Bazooka, Sgt. Airborne compared to…well… pretty much anyone. Yes, I would not argue one bit that the design team had the benefit of experience, but the same could be said of the vintage line, when comparing 1985 – 1986 and 1982 – 1983, and that is certainly done in healthy doses. 😉
“I think that’s a pretty fair way of putting it without seeming to belittle your particular enjoyment of something I may detest, don’t you?”
Absolutely. That’s a perfectly fair statement and a good way to put it. To be honest, I did feel with some of the posts that they were directed at me, which made me a bit defensive. I feel a sense of ownership over the site (well…because I own it, I suppose) so when comments are made here, it feels like a more direct statement towards me personally rather than the populace at large, as it might appear on a regular forum. That’s something I just need to get more used to.
“I do disagree that RoC captured more of what GI Joe has always been though. Not because of the better articulation or sculpting but because I feel like that line was a direct departure from the established individuality that each of these characters has had in every other line that has come before, for the most part. Even S6 which I hated, had that united individuality with their costumes and personalities. I didn’t care for most of it, but at least it was still there and they resembled the older characters that I’ve grown to love… sometimes.”
And that is a perfectly fair, rational statement as well, and one I do share… to a degree. I absolutely love the individuality of the G.I. Joe cast of characters. How they’re not just your generic military soldiers, there’s a very strong sense of fantasy, and a lot of that is pulled from some of the outlandish costumes and unique designs. I agree whole heartedly, The Rise of Cobra lost a lot of that sense of “wonder”. But as a fan of Sigma 6, and someone who can pick and choose which figures to put where, I had some appreciation for it, too. The 4″ scale will always be my bread and butter, yet I really loved the pseudo-futuristic science fiction elements of Sigma 6, so in that way The Rise of Cobra was great for me. It had the elements I loved about Sigma, but in a more managable scale (that fit with the thousands of other figures I had). Yet, I didn’t let it replace anything in my collection or my display. It’s a different era, it has it’s own uniqueness, but yes, I do agree, one of the major downfalls of RoC was the generic “one size fits all” costume and the “one size fits all” color scheme.
“It isn’t intended as a slight against you or those who actually LIKE it, whatever “it” is, more that it just isn’t up to my own expectations of what I prefer to see, and I don’t think it sends the proper “message” to Hasbro when these types buy the stuff even when they don’t like it, just to “support the brand”. ”
And I would agree with that. I would never avocate that someone buy something they don’t like simply to “support the brand”. If you don’t like it, definitely don’t buy it. I was a completist for twenty-five years. Up until the 25th Anniversary line, I had one of every single 3 3/4″ G.I. Joe item produced. But starting in 2007 I just couldn’t keep up that pace. There is stuff I didn’t purchase, and tons of stuff I have absolutely no intention of purchasing, and I would never consider spending my hard earned money on something I didn’t like simply because I want the brand to succeed.
Occasionally on the site I will explain that it’s important for the brand TO succeed, and that a popular film, cartoon, or toyline will help that. But I would never encourage anyone to part with their hard-earned money for something that they don’t feel would give them happiness or pleasure. I sure as hell wouldn’t do it.
“As far as you and I go, I have the utmost respect for you and what you do here, whether we agree on everything or not, and again, my comments were not intended for you personally. We don’t always have to agree just to be able to get along, now do we?”
Absolutely not. All I ask for is intelligent discourse. Say whatever you want, but say it with respect, and all is cool with me. I know I have very unique tastes amongst the Joe fandom. Find me anyone else in the online world who loves the vintage 90’s, the new sculpt stuff, AND Sigma 6, and I’ll call you a damn liar. If I demanded that everyone who visited my site have the same opinions I do, I’d have a very small viewership. 😉
Today I received in the Fans Project figure Defender who is a completely custom built modern interpretation of a G1 Transformer named Springer. This figure is just as good as anything produced by Hasbro or their Japanese partner Takara and it got me thinking; what would the fans say to a third party, fan run, custom company that filled in the holes of the Joe Anniversary line like Fans Project is doing for the Transformers classics line. Sure the names would have to be different but to be able to get a Low-Light (A guy I’m really hoping for), done the way I remember him, made by people who feel the way I do about the product, just might be a good thing.
Trigate already has some awesome sculpts for MANY GI Joe characters (although they can’t list the sculpts out by name…), but I don’t know that they could, or would, be able or willing to be a third party for mass production. If it isn’t done on a massive enough scale though, they would cost out the wah-zoo. But I have to say, they would be just AWESOME based on what I have seen of them, so far.
(Anyone know which possible figure sculpts for o-ring 3 3/4″ scale, might be solid options for use as a Sarge torso, if not entire uniform, for customizing a version of him from GI Joe #48, aptly named “Slaughter”. I doubt we’ll ever see one as an exclusive or otherwise, so I’d like to build my own to go with the other 3 versions I have from back in the day. Any help would be appreciated on this, thank you much!)
But a third party would be nice for such a thing if it were possible.
“In fact, just to demonstrate how much I welcome viewpoints from the other side, I have offered Hawkwinter a staff position at the site, which he has accepted.”-Justin
I would like to congratulate Hawkwinter on his acceptance of the staff position. I do agree that at times we would love to see the flip-side of the coin without it going overboard. Hawkwinter, your opinions and rebuttals are intriguing, thought provoking and very well constructed and I cannot wait to read more of your valid contributions to the site!
Allow me to engage in typing out a hearty round of *applause*
Congrats again!
-Anonymous
In fact, just to demonstrate how much I welcome viewpoints from the other side, I have offered Hawkwinter a staff position at the site, which he has accepted.”-Justin
Agreed with Anon.E.Moss, this is great news. Congrats Hawkwinter, I’m looking forward to reading some “official” articles from you. 🙂
Thanks guys (and to Justin of course).
Odd turn of events these last few days. When I sat down to write my post that started with “In defense of Alpine” I thought I was endangering myself to getting flamed off the site…..
….instead I got offered a staff position! Go figure.
If anything, these past few days have proven that there are quite a few different points of view in varying degrees and I look forward to having the opportunity to offer a different perspective on many of the topics.
“Silent Master, thanks for taking the time to read and reply.” — Justin
Anytime, Justin! I’m all about being able to have an intelligent and well thought out discussion, or even the occassional inspired one, lol, with someone who can handle it in a rational and civilized manner and can even understand MY point of view just as I can understand theirs. I think we have both shown that we can see each others’ PoV without feeling the need to get pushy about things, and that is a fantastic change from what I normally encounter with people who disagree with me about Hasbro/GI Joe and where I think they screw up or do really well. I’d like to say thanks for that aspect of our conversation alone.
“Occasionally on the site I will explain that it’s important for the brand TO succeed, and that a popular film, cartoon, or toyline will help that. But I would never encourage anyone to part with their hard-earned money for something that they don’t feel would give them happiness or pleasure. I sure as hell wouldn’t do it.”
Well, this is just more of a reason why I can respect where you are coming from, and understand what you are saying, without trying to push people to buy the junk just to get the good stuff. I can appreciate this.
Based on our last couple of messages, it seems to me, that we agree on the fundamentals of what Hasbro has done over the years even until now, it is really only in the fine details where our thoughts on things diverge more, even though I still would see Alpine’s way of thinking as being closer to what is wrong with Hasbro in general, lol. Absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. You can enjoy your S6 stuff and I can hate it, but still appreciate the (few for me) bright spots where it crosses back into what I have always felt was GI Joe. (So, even if I say somethng may suck, or whatever, doesn’t mean I hate every single aspect of it. Even with the RoC stuff, which I mostly hate, I’ve always maintained that they are at least really good for creating custom figures from, lol.)
I think for me, it’s largely a matter of the “silver lining” too often gets eclipsed by the blackness of the cloud. Which is to say, that even though Hasbro does lots of really good, really cool stuff, all too often they screw up even more and it ruins the good vibe they otherwise could have had throughout a line. For me, the movie absolutely DESTROYED any and all credibility with the RoC toyline, and then they compounded it with the dark bland colors and movie actor headsculpts on all of the film star figures, not even to mention “Ripcord” who was the biggest slap to the face for me and many other long time fans (as I’ve mentioned elsewhere in a thread where that was the main topic).
The awesome articulation and some of the other things we discussed with that line, just kind of get lost in the middle of all that “darkness” so I just don’t feel justified in offering any real praise to that line, because to me, there was just more wrong than right with it, but again, the movie is largely to blame for that. Who knows? Without the movie and some better paint apps, (and lose the big launchy things), I probably would have bought those figures at full price without hesitation, just based on what you feel are a lot of its merit.
So, on that note, I will give the GIJCC its due and say that they at least do come up with more original stuff which to me, “feels” more like what I think GI Joe is and always should be. Which I believe is another reason that they should continue to devise the unsung or never before seen characters that they have generally done up until now, rather than trying to take on the role of Hasbro and fill the gaps, as it were, which was the point of this thread originally.
Like I’ve mentioned a couple of times previously to try and get the thread back on track, doing the issue 48 Sarge from the comics (titled appropriately enough “Slaughter”), where he is in his camo fatigues, toting his ditty bag and orders, roughs up the Motor Pool boys and then saves the day by punching out Zartan (when it could just as easily have been Gung-Ho on the receiving end of a savage Slaughter beating. It was also during this run that Ripcord came into his own and achieved his spot with the fans, only to have the movie ruin it all for those of us who really enjoyed that character. (Anyone who has never read any of this can check it out in the Vol. 5 trade from IDW.)
In closing, Justin, I’ve found someone else in the online world who loves the vintage 90’s, the new sculpt stuff, AND Sigma 6. So there you go.
Just kidding! Have a great April Fool’s Day! 😉
Oh and congratulations, Hawkwinter! I know you’ll do a really good job.
So this is what happens when there is no new product to chase?
Congrats, Hawkwinter. Very cool!
And, for my part, I’d like to apologize if my comments were offensive. In trying to be funny in the face of the seemingly ridiculous tirades happening, I can come across as arrogant. Not the intention (is it ever?). In fact, I replied to Alpine in an earlier thread and was hoping to get some more balance, or at least have a viable, friendly debate.
So, what I’m trying to say is that I like this site. I am kinda attuned to Justin’s views, so I tend to find “more to love” here, and thus I speak up. But this thread was an anomaly, that obviously would get really tired, really fast if it happened all the time. Thanks to Justin for having the head to somehow keep it cool, and to all who have posted for “coming down” when it cooled off.
I for one think that disagreements are the best thing for any hobby. The friction makes for a better, more well rounded end product, be it toys, movies, or music (I know that last one, being a drummer). As many have said, it’s when there is a perception of disrespect that things get ugly, and people (like me) feel the need to either defend or destroy the ridiculous behaviour, when taking Snake Eyes route tends to be the best way. That is, keep silent and let the buzz die down as long as no one is actually getting hurt. 😉
Anyhow, to Alpine, if you’re reading this anymore: Again, my apologies. Your opinions are valid, as are everyone’s. Lets enjoy this hobby together, and enjoy each others enjoyment of even the things we don’t like.
Like the header here says, we’re talking about the importance (or unimportance)little plastic men. It’s when we forget that we’re talking WITH real people that things can get away from us.
I really want 25th Quarrel. I’d pay the club $30 for it.
I for one think that disagreements are the best thing for any hobby. The friction makes for a better, more well rounded end product, be it toys, movies, or music (I know that last one, being a drummer).
Yes, this is so very true Nas. I know this as well from many, many things in my life. Complacency brings about mediocre work.
The problem is there has to be a balance. Having been in several bands throughout my life (to compare with your comments), friction is great, having people challenge you is even better, it pushes you to prove them wrong and can create excellent results. Too much opposition and hostility and it destroys. If you raise your level and still all you get is negativity it will be the demise of your band (or you or them in it) eventually.
I feel this way about Hasbro as well. Everytime we (the fans) are generally happy and stop pushing….something bad usually happens….lol. Hasbro seems to have no problem adapting to the idea of having to bring something new before the fans get bored. I’ve never once see them push a good idea until everyone was sick of it. They’ve certainly pushed bad ideas but quickly adjust. I think through the years they’ve come to think that switching gears often, keeps everyone happy. No way to keep everyone happy all at the same time. But if one year you do something group A & C like and the next you do something B & D like, well, I guess you’re doing good.
Bringing this all back to the GIJoeCC doing 25th fill-ins, I think Hasbro will find they would have great demand for these figures.
Single release is key though. Box sets never do as well because people don’t want to spend money on figures they don’t want. That was the non-stop issue during the GvC, Spy Troops and VvV days. Put 7 guys in one box, you’re bound to have a few figures this or that person doesn’t want. Add to that bad production/distribution ideas (1 Joe box/1 Cobra box -even though the Cobra box is almost all troop builders) and you have product sitting around.
I would love to see the collector’s club fill in the blanks in the 25th anniversary line. Airtight, Sci-Fi, a more 86 accurate Leatherneck would all be awesome to see. I joined recently with word of the upcoming 25th style Dial-Tone so I’m definitely on board with this idea.
Seriously? Some people honestly think that it is the “serious collector” that keeps meeting Hasbro’s bottom line and not the general masses? Um, yeah sure. A few hundred serious Joe-heads spend more than thousands of mom’s, dad’s and grandparents buying for their little brats. IF that is the case (which I doubt) then it is surely something that Hasbro is trying to rectify by striking a chord with today’s kids so they will start outpacing the niche sales to collectors.
Honestly collectors should be listened to very carefully because they are almost guaranteed sales and they provide a type of “market research” that would be expensive to complete for the “kiddie” market. However, Hasbro like most any company would rather appeal to millions of little kids rather than just a small segment of the population. Thus, they constantly try new lines in hopes of striking gold like they did so many years ago.
Now, do you honestly think that some bigwigs at Hasbro are looking at their bottom line and saying, “Jeez, we’re getting most of our Joe sales from serious collectors! Damn I hate those guys. We really need to produce some crap they won’t like so they’ll start leaving us alone and we can just do pitiful sales with little kids again”
I know, the whiners won’t listen to this reasoning and they don’t think that this is what their whining is implying. But really this is what you have implied with much or your ranting.
But hey, maybe you’re right. What would I know about business decisions? I only have 3 college degrees – one of which is actually in Economics. So business decisions are just way over my head.
Oh, and for the record. I’m a “buy it if I like it, screw it if I don’t” kind of guy myself. I’d buy some stuff at the ridiculous collectors club prices, but most I’d say are not worth the extra dough. I can understand other people feeling the need to be completists though. I myself am a completist with other stuff and it annoys me to admit it (and annoys my wife when I don’t admit it.lol)