So apparently folks have started receiving their September newsletter for the G.I. Joe Collectors’ Club, which has the pre-orders listed for their upcoming release of DTC Wave 4. And hysteria reigns. Joe fans? Hysteria? No WAY.
For the record, the price and release breakdown is this:
Airtight vs. Cobra Officer- $28.99 Ships October
Outback vs. Night Viper- $28.99 Ships October
Lt. Falcon Vs. Munitia & PP Copperhead- $40.99 Ships January
The first complaints are about the price. Well, on that point, it’s tough for me to argue. Thirty bones for two figures is a powerful punch on the wallet, especially when Anniversary figures are scattered about at $6-7 a pop. Yes, the figures are collector-grade and expensive. To many folks they will be prohibitively expensive. However, considering how small the run is and the quality of the items, the pricing does not surprise me.
But the larger issue at stake here are the people slamming the club for poor decisions, for not knowing what “the fan” wants, and for delays in production which are going to cause this to fail, and many folks think it deserves to fail. This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but the way the public fandom in general has handled DTC Wave 4 is the epitome of how ridiculous the internet toy fandom can be (not just Joe fans, but fans in general).
When DTC was originally listed for release, it was universally panned. Repaints, rehashes, and figures not resembling their original counterparts caused rampant freak outs throughout the internets, and threats of boycotts and the inevitable “deth of teh line”. Then, the line DID die, and Wave 4 never came out. Almost immediately the fickle fandom immediately determined that these now unreleased figures were the “best DTC figures evah” and how much Hasbro failed for not releasing them, and how we as a fandom deserved these figures. We could not conceive of how our beloved 3 3/4″ was going away and why Hasbro would dare not release these “awesome” figures.
Enter the Collectors’ Club. Demand was high, fans were outraged, so the Club stepped up and agreed to get these figures produced. Keep in mind that toy production runs on a one year cycle. From concept to production for a very large production order, there is normally one year that goes from beginning to end to get these figures out on store shelves. With tooling already done, obviously that time should be much less, and normally I’d think it would be.
But keep in mind that the Club essentially has three full-time employees who are responsible for these figures. These three employees also had back-to-back-to-back-to-back conventions over the last 2 years to get toys produced for, while constantly dealing with our outrage that convention exclusive pictures weren’t being shown fast enough. All the while having to deal with production factories who barely care about 2000 piece orders and who have no idea where the tooling even exists in their own building. This is a challenge that not many Joe fans can appreciate. The Club employees cannot pick up a phone and simply say “yeah, get me Falcon in green” and it magically gets done. There is a ton of legwork and a ton of effort that goes into each and every decision (and I haven’t even begun to talk about what happens when Hasbro gets involved). Factor in overseas shipping back and forth just to perfectly color match a COBRA logo or camouflage pattern, and a “quick production cycle” suddenly turns into a multi-month endeavor.
Bitch about the pricing all you want. That is your right. The figures are more expensive, much more than mass-retail product (because of a much smaller production run). But lambasting the club for production delays (that are not all their fault) and for “choosing” to release DTC Wave 4 when that is exactly what the fans were asking for seems disingenuous at best. No one knew how popular the Anniversary figures would be. No one could possibly anticipate how much the Joe fans would embrace this new style, and to their credit the Club was trying to give the fans what they wanted and what they were asking for. It’s not their fault the toy fandom’s capricious opinions fluctuate as the “latest and greatest” becomes the next big thing.
…So sez Justin Savage, Brian’s eldest son…
Well said.
I can see how people might be a touch miffed at an $11 shipping & handling charge, but what did these fans EXPECT these figures to cost?
Sadly, I can see these guys languishing in a warehouse in Texas, negatively affecting the Club’s desire to try and do something special for the collecting community for years to come…
Exactly. That’s my biggest worry, Mike. I hope these do sell, but I fear they won’t, and part of it might be out of spite. But all it will accomplish is convincing the Collectors’ Club that we don’t want to see unproduced items, and that what the fans “want” ain’t necessarily what the fans will still “want” 6 months down the line when something they consider better is out there.
And Kevin… it must just be the hair… but in that case, you’re probably my long lost brother!
I realize that the price is high, but that is going to happen with any speciality toys.
What bugs me here is the way the club has selected to package these. At 15+ a figure, folks are going to pick and choose, and the club seems to know that and has taken advantage of that. What collector doesn’t want Munitia? If Munitia had been available by herself, she probably would have sold quite a few figures. So what did the club do? Package her in the MOST EXPENSIVE pack with two of the least desirable figures. Same with the Cobra Officers. Some folks might want to army build these, so wouldn’t it make more sense to package them in a two pack, with the Night Viper army builder, or loose? Guess not, as they’re put in with a unique character. I applaud the club for taking the time to make these, but why could they not have been sold individually? Had they done that, I for sure would have been renewing my mebership and picking up Airtight, Munitia, and the Night Viper. Now, I’m once again going to avoid renewing my membership.
That is a valid point, Barbecue, and something that I’m storing in the back of my head to ask at the next Convention. I’m assuming that when someone does 2000 pc runs that they HAVE to produce equal numbers of all pieces in the assortment. In other words, they can’t do 5000 Munitias, 1000 Falcons, 3000 Officers, etc… it’s gotta be 2000 of everything or 5000 of everything, etc…
If that is the case, then the pairings make sense, or else they’d be saddled with hundreds of Falcons and Copperheads, while being totally sold out of Munitias and Officers. Is that a bad thing? I dunno. I think maybe a better idea might have been a “test market”. Release an assortment of Munitia, Night-Viper, and Outback, and see how those sold. If they were worth it, then go ahead and push through Falcon, Airtight, and COBRA Officer. If those fail, at least there was one successful run that might have recouped some costs for the Club. If this whole endeavor fails, then it could mean bad things.
I’m not sure what the packaging philosophy is or the production limits of the factory, but that is definitely something worth exploring. I see no issues with valid complaints and valid criticism…asking questions. What I don’t like is rampant screeching about “phailure”, telling the Club to “choke on their figures” and hoping that this fails. And yes, I have read those exact comments on message boards today. None of those comments or criticism helps anyone, and if anything, it only discourages the Club from interacting with us in the first place.
I’m like you, and just can’t figure out fans sometimes. There are complaints that product isn’t showing up fast enough, then complaints that there is too much at one time. Most of the fans the speak out, are the ones with nothing positive to say. It’similar to product reviews for anything you find on the web. A majority of people don’t take the time to write review if they are happy…but, if you feel you have be wronged, it’s easier to find the time to voice that opinion. (you’re JBL reviews are and exception to the above)
As far as price, these really doesn’t seem too far off of what we have paid for the MOTH series, considering recent oil prices. I still think the club should offer a bagged version of all their exclusives at a cheaper price similar to how they do the convention figures.
I like the blog format by the way.
Amen. There’s no better way to make sure that the club stops listening to fans than to beg, plead, whine, demand and even complain for specific toys, and then refuse to buy them.
I shudder to think about the future of O-sculpt releases if Joe fans refuse to get behind these.
I’m not really a staunch defender of the club, this is my first year. There are some things that I don’t really understand about the way it works, but when they go all out to satisfy fan requests we gotta put our money where our collective mouth is.
Anyway – just a long-winded “right on.” And the blog format is a great idea – good discussion thus far!
I think that the “fan desire” for wave 4 was hugely overblown, and may have been a bit overrepresented in this blog post. There was a small and dedicated following for the figures, but only one or two of them at most. With the figures being clearanced out of the club’s own store at low prices, it was pretty clear that the “new sculpt” figures were not commanding significant prices on the secondary market, with even the VvsV Torch commanding less than $15.
Yes, these will not do so well, but look at the MOTH sets. These were really great figures in really detailed paint schemes, but because they weren’t part of a set and had a really high buy in, they didn’t exactly sell out.
I won’t blame MC if they want to take a break from these risky fan based club exclusives and just do con sets for a while. The whole operation has to be running on a budget lower than what it would take to put gas in a hummer for a year, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t take a break from risk.
double negative, I menat “take a break from risk”.
Hey Justin! Loving the new ‘blog’ style of your site. Keep up the good work!! Personally, the DTC wave 4 outrage is an example of the reason I don’t do message boards anymore….You NAILED it with your post here. I remember when pics of DTC wave 4 came out, the Internet nearly shut down from the hatred towards these things. Then suddenly it was canceled, and the Internet nearly shut down from the hatred towards Hasbro (despite that fact that previous DTC waves sold litterally hundreds of figures if I remember correctly). Now the Internet is about to shut down AGAIN due to hatred towards the club. Obviously people knew they would be high priced coming from the club, but at the end of the day, they *tried* to do what fandom wanted. If you don’t like the price, don’t buy them!! Very simple…..
Go Sox!
Mike
Right on right ON,Justin. I’m sick of the whining myself. These figures aren’t much more than MOTH,considering.I’m going to get at least the Munitia pack-hey,I like that Falcon,and I don’t have the Copperhead.
Hey guys-you don’t have to buy what you don’t want.
Mike, good to see ya, buddy! 😉
Max, it’s not even the whining, though. I can certainly appreciate the issues people have with the club…it goes with the territory. I agree with a lot of what people say as well. It’s just how people express those opinions…just a matter of being constructive and understanding with the circumstances.
Rap, thanks for the comment to you, too. When have you ever known me to be overblown? :shifty:
In all fairness, you are right, it wasn’t an overwhelming majority who were clamoring for Wave 4, but it was certainly more than “one or two” from across the different forums throughout the community.
I can understand people’s frustrations, I just wish folks were a bit more constructive with their criticism and understanding as to exactly what goes on behind closed doors to make these figures happen and what costs go into it.
I saw a post saying the production costs were $1.25 per figure?!? I don’t know where that information was pulled from, but that’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard yet.
I dont know, Justin.
I know the fandom can be very nitpicky and fickle as you put it. But you have to understand that when these were wanted they were wanted at the $5-$6 per fig from TRUs or DTC. Hasbro showed them and teased them for quite a while on several occasions. Now comes a diferent time and era where 25th Anniversary is king and these DTC figs are not going to be accepted by the Joe mob especialy at those prices and in those sets. I understand the hard work the Club went to for these and I wont judge the Club. BUT you are judging the fandom, Justin. I know you have a lot of perspective when it comes to the retail side of JOE and the CLub, but I think the Fandom has it a bit right this time.
Good post. Fans really need to understand the incredibly difficult process that goes into getting something made overseas. If a fan doesn’t like the price then don’t buy them.
Hey, Carlos!
First of all, thanks for the comments. Secondly, I have NO ISSUE with the fans complaining and voicing their opinions about this. None. But to do so without any consideration for what went on to get to this point is disingenuous. To just slap every ounce of blame on the Collectors’ Club without knowing all the facts and without knowing just how much time and money went into getting this wave released is wrong.
The fans have a right to be upset, of course they do. All I ask is that you open yourselves up to the possibility that it’s not all the Collectors’ Club’s fault and that there are reasons for everything beyond pure greed or even “stupidity”. Lashing out at the Club, hoping the project fails and hoping the Club chokes on their figures is NOT a solution. Going to the convention and opening a dialog with the Club (and Hasbro) and finding out WHY these things happened is a solution. All I ask is that the basic fan does a little legwork and has a fraction of understanding before latching out. Once they get the information, or once they open their mind, if they’re still ticked off, they have every reason and every right to voice that opinion, and I’ll stand behind it 100%.
OK…I understand fan hatin’….I can’t stand them myself.
I understand Club appreciation…I feel there isn’t enough appreciation of their efforts, however financially misguided they seem to the normal blue collar Joe fan…
And yeah, I have paid SICK money for figures that I can now get for a FRACTION of what I paid (I have not looked hard for differences in DTC samples vs. MC product yet…)
…..BUT I think…$19 per figure is not acceptable. $14 per figure would….I think I am most offended by the $11 per 2 pack shipping charge, MORE SO than the figure price. $34 If you get each set individually. I have personally shipped 7 MOC figures for far less, less than 25%, of that cost.
And yeah, part of this might be my own pissed-offedness at Ebay’s recent rule about shipping being determined in some way by buyers, but still, $11 for 2 MOC figures is so laughable it isn’t even funny. I can’t even IMAGINE a level of SHIPPING AND HANDLING SERVICE that would add up to $11 worth of cost when added to normal shipping…Do the figures come strapped to the back of naked virgin asian teenage girls? Is each one gently warmed over the burning corpses of my enemies as to prevent them from seeming cold to the touch upon delivery? Are they delivered inside 14ct gold Faberge eggs, adorned with ruby encrusted Cobra symbols? Does each 2 pack come with a complimentary Peregrine falcon Egg Salad sandwich? Maybe each figure comes with a $5 bill as an accessory? That way, each figure buys you a gallon and a half of gas…Sounds like a DEAL NOW!!!
I know I’m jaded…But for $20 per figure, I’ll buy 1986 Vipers.